Doing text and data entry into virtual or augmented reality can be a challenge since it’s difficult to see or find the keyboard. It’s an open problem within the VR space, and so people started suggesting to Mark Parker that his handheld TREWGrip keyboard might provide a solution for these immersive technologies.
TREWGrip is a mobile keyboard that places the QWERTY layout of letters onto the opposite side of a handheld, bluetooth device. It also includes a gyroscope so that you could control the movement of a mouse. It was originally created for mobile text entry into a phone or tablet, but the handheld nature of the device has the potential to work of mobile AR or VR applications as well.
Mark was an exhibitor at SVVCon showing on the TREWGrip mobile QWERTY keyboard to the VR community, and we had a change to catch up to talk about some of the features and history of the keyboard. You can purchase a TREWGrip keyboard for $299.
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Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.412] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast.
[00:00:11.975] Mark Parker: I'm Mark Parker, I'm the founder and president of TruGrip. TruGrip's a handheld keyboard, air mouse, and game controller. Works with all kinds of different technologies, mobile technologies, smart TVs, but we've had a lot of interest from the VR community. They've been interested in a device that they can hold, a keyboard they can hold and do data entry with without having to take their headset off and look for their keyboard. So we didn't really anticipate this need, but it's one that we've got a lot of interest so far.
[00:00:38.654] Kent Bye: And so yeah, maybe, you know, this is a podcast, so we have to be a little descriptive as to what this thing is and what it looks like. So maybe you could describe to me what you're holding in your hand right now with the TrueGrip.
[00:00:48.558] Mark Parker: Yeah, so we've taken a flat keyboard, we've split and rotated the keys, so now the keys are actually on the back side of the device. It allows you to grip the device and actuate the keys at the same time. As far as the mouse movement, you just tilt and turn the unit, and then there's a couple of mouse buttons underneath the right thumb for doing the mouse movement. You can also convert it into a game controller mode. So just by tilting and turning the unit again, you have six degrees of freedom that you can use for different gaming platforms. Nice.
[00:01:15.592] Kent Bye: And so was this designed for virtual reality and augmented reality applications then?
[00:01:20.455] Mark Parker: It wasn't. We really started with mobile in mind that people could actually move around and do data entry efficiently, but that's really one of the limitations of the current VR and AR technology is that you've got to sit at a desk and even though you kind of turn your head around, if you need to do any type of input, it's stationary. You've got to have your hands and find the keyboard and the mouse. So, you know, again, it wasn't something we anticipated, but we've had a lot of VR developers reaching out to us saying, hey, we really think you've got something here that might be applicable in our space.
[00:01:47.969] Kent Bye: And so is this a Kinect via USB? Is there wires coming out of it, or is it wireless? Talk a bit about the wire situation.
[00:01:54.614] Mark Parker: Yeah, so it's a Bluetooth. So any Bluetooth-enabled device will work with a Bluetooth HID. And we really just designed it so it would be universal. You could use it with different platforms. So Bluetooth just seemed to be the most universal that we could use.
[00:02:08.023] Kent Bye: I see. And so in terms of words per minute and being able to type, how fast can you type normally, and then how fast can you type on a TrueGrip?
[00:02:16.172] Mark Parker: Yes, so it's the same for me. So I'm about 25-30 words a minute on a flat keyboard and it's the same on TrueGrip. But we've had typing competitions where the guy who won the competition qualified at 130 words a minute and then typed 115 words a minute with TrueGrip after about four or five days of practice. So you can learn. It takes a little bit of time because we've repositioned the hands. But you can learn it and you can type as fast as you can on a flat keyboard, but now in a handheld setting or mobile setting.
[00:02:44.311] Kent Bye: And so usually when you're typing, you're typing against something that's laying on a desk. But in this situation, you're typing upward. So what does it feel like when you're actually holding it and pushing upward on the keys?
[00:02:56.993] Mark Parker: It's a different experience at first, there's no question. I mean, you're used to pressing down. So this, it takes a little getting used to. Now there is a benefit that we didn't anticipate. It's the ergonomic benefits to it. So your wrist in this position, but also your fingers moving in this direction. I mean, you're actually, I guess you're pressing up, it depends on how you're holding it, but when you're typing on a flat keyboard, you've actually got gravity working against you, and in this case, I'm actually moving my fingers horizontally, more so than up and down or vertically, so there's not as much strain. Now, you can't maybe measure that or see that, obviously, but some people have done some studies where they put sensors on people's arms, and we're able to measure the difference between using a flat keyboard and using TrueGrip.
[00:03:40.143] Kent Bye: Is there any special integration that a VR developer would need to do in order to use the TrueGrip within a VR experience?
[00:03:46.688] Mark Parker: No, there's not. I mean, just connect it to the computer and start using it. So, I mean, all the capabilities really built in. Now, if there is something that a VR developer comes across, we'd love to hear about it. I mean, there are adjustments we can make to the firmware and really make it work better in a VR environment. You know, for the most part, it's a keyboard, so typing or input is just like a keyboard, a flat keyboard. On the mouse movement, it's a little bit different of the game controller movement, but we're just using standard sensors and things, so, you know, if there is a need, we can definitely fulfill it. And what's the price range for the TrueGrip, then? So, it's $299. It's a street price.
[00:04:21.290] Kent Bye: Nice. And have you used it personally in VR?
[00:04:25.632] Mark Parker: I have a little bit. I'm a little bit older, I guess. I get sick a lot with the VR headset on, so I can only use it for a very limited amount of time. But I use it every day as part of my job. I'm responding to email. I can stand at my desk. I can walk around in my office. I'm not confined to my chair. I really can move around and do things, and that's really the benefit that I like. I just feel healthier being able to stand up and move around and not have to sit at my desk all day. Anyway, I have used it in a VR environment, but not as much as I have in just a regular work environment.
[00:04:58.325] Kent Bye: The actual keys are occluded, so you can't see the keys, but there's kind of a legend, I guess you could say, of the keys in a map, of what the keys are laid out.
[00:05:06.171] Mark Parker: Yeah, so that's really for a non-touch typist, so someone that doesn't know where the keys are. We provided these visual cues on the front, and it gives you a visual indication of where the key is on the backside. And then when you press the key, it actually gives you that lighted feedback or that visual feedback that shows you that you pressed the key that you intended. Even for touch typists, there's just certain keys that you don't know where they are, like the dollar sign. I don't know where that is just by repetition, so I have to look down periodically just to get that visual cue to know where it is. So it does come in handy, which obviously presents an issue in a VR environment that you really can't look down, but for someone learning this, or experience it for the first time, having those visual cues on the front really help people come up to speed with it.
[00:05:48.199] Kent Bye: What are some of the other buttons that you would be pressing with your thumb rather than all of your individual fingers then?
[00:05:52.745] Mark Parker: Yes, we have control keys on the front, we've got arrow keys, backspace, space, enter, and tab. Obviously, space is associated with the thumb on a flat keyboard. But we put the keys up here really just to facilitate the method of data entry. Just a convenient place for them to be. A backspace, trying to reach it on the back just so that it would be way up in the corner. It's just hard to get to, but having it right next to the space bar makes it very easy to backspace. Same with tab and enter. They're just keys that would be a little bit awkward on the back, so having them on the front allows you to get to them more quickly. But the other thumb keys are really about just controlling the application or controlling the software, so an Alt-Tab or doing those functions. You're not doing them as often. It's really about doing the data entry more efficiently and using the typing keys.
[00:06:39.958] Kent Bye: Yeah, and I do think that input is a big problem in VR, and that there's not a lot of really good solutions for doing, you know, traditional text input. So it's traditionally been kind of avoided, but I do see that this would be a pretty key part of future applications of VR and AR. I guess that'd be in contrast to, like, speech recognition. So if somebody were to say, like, why don't you just use speech? Why would you advocate for using the keyboard over using speech recognition?
[00:07:06.877] Mark Parker: Yeah, well, just look at the way people use their technology nowadays. I mean, we have the ability to pick up the phone and call someone, but we don't. We text out a little message to them and we're done. And a lot of it has to do with privacy. When you're talking, people can hear what you're saying and it's awkward for people to do that, especially in different settings. One industry that's interested in this is the healthcare industry. Although they're using voice, they have to go to a private office in order to dictate. So using a device like this, they can walk around and move around and do their data entry. which, you know, it's different, obviously, than voice, but it allows them to do it wherever they are, and without whatever sound or noise might be, environmental issues that might be going on. So, you know, it's just funny. People type. They continue to type, even though these technologies are out there, and we just are giving them a little bit different way of typing, a more mobile way of typing, that really is starting to open up new possibilities for how you use technology.
[00:07:59.673] Kent Bye: Yeah, it's really interesting that you would have people that would be interacting with other people and it'd be kind of rude to be looking at your computer screen. This kind of gives them a way to be typing and doing data entry while still maintaining like respectful eye contact and sort of attention and presence.
[00:08:14.012] Mark Parker: Agreed. And that's big in the healthcare industry. I mean, how many times have you gone into your doctor's office and they sit over in the corner and they ask you questions while their backs turn to you? So having that eye contact is a critical piece of using technology and being able to interact with people at the same time. Great. So what's next for the TrueGrip? Yeah, so it's just a matter of just getting out, showing it to people, and that's really what we found is a huge benefit, is if we get out and put it in people's hands, it's easier for them to understand where we're going with it, but we see all kinds of different variations of this unit. It could be smaller, it could fold, but it really is, as these different use cases develop, we envision changing it or adjusting it to meet those different use cases. Anyway, this is just the beginning. We're just introducing it letting people give it a try and we can imagine where it might go But you know, we've got to see where it goes in the next next few months or years Okay, great. Thank you.
[00:09:05.600] Kent Bye: Thank you for stopping by appreciate you give me an opportunity to chat with you and thank you for listening if you'd like to support the voices of VR podcast, then please consider becoming a patron at patreon.com slash voices of VR
