I interviewed First Day director Valeriy Korshunov and producer Svitlana Korshunova at Venice Immersive 2023. See more context in the rough transcript below.
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Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.412] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR podcast. It's a podcast that looks at immersive storytelling, experiential design, and the future of spatial computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. So continuing my series of looking at different experiences at Venice Immersive 2023, today is episode number 16 out of 35, and then the first of three of looking at the context of enemies and war. So this experience is called First Day, which is actually the winner of the College Biennale, which is a program that has a lot of folks that come in and get mentored. And so this was the one that was selected to get fully funded. And so this is a piece by the director, Valery Konorshinov, and the producer, Slavana Korshinova. So this is a piece that's from Ukraine and it's about the Ukrainian war and it's about the first day of the war actually And so it takes you into an apartment building as the war is beginning and you get all these different text messages on the phone and then you have to go to the grocery store and get different items to be able to pack for your backpack and And as you're walking around and navigating through this, there's a number of different photogrammetry scenes of looking at the aftermath of war, these different bombed buildings and these different tanks, and kind of like this post-apocalyptic vibe of looking at the impact of war on these different locations. And you kind of go through a series of these different scenes. I happened to get a little bit of a guided tour through this experience. So my experience of this may be a little bit different than others who may have had a little bit more of a self-guided experience, but I was probably one of the first ones to see this piece because I was seeing it on the press day and I wanted to get in there and see it. And so as they were still kind of sorting things out, I got a very personal guided tour through a number of these different scenes. which I think actually kind of added to different dimensions of this type of experience to be able to create this larger spatial context to be able to share these different types of stories that Valter was able to share, both his experiences and some of the stories that these places represented for him. So this is the primary spatial context of war. It's also looking at the context of home and what happens to your home in the context of war. It's also looking at the broader context of the neighborhood as you're walking around the cityscapes and looking at the impact of war. It's also worth mentioning that there's a physical installation on the onboarding and offboarding of this experience, where as you're going in, you're seeing the apartment that you're going to be seeing represented in the context of the virtual experience. And then as you leave the experience, then you kind of see the aftermath of the different changes that happened to that apartment as you go through the virtual experience. And so the offboarding is kind of a callback to a different iteration of this physical installation. And there's some different augmented reality components to that where you can take your phone and see different clips that are being triggered by different pictures on the walls that are showing additional news footage and clips that are related to the broader context of the story that they're centering on to this one symbol of this apartment that was attacked at the very beginning of the war in Ukraine. And the primary center of gravity of presence is very much into this environmental presence of this kind of environmental storytelling and showing you the spatial context with all these different photogrammetry. So there's also a lot of interactivity and agency as you're locomoting through these different places, kind of exploring around, but also having these different tasks that you're completing. And also this sense of emotional presence of the intensity of the stories that they're telling and the impact of war and the stories that are being told. So that's what we're covering on today's episode of the Voices of VR podcast. So this interview with Valerie and Svetlana happened on Thursday, August 31st, 2023 at Venice Immersive in Venice, Italy. So with that, let's go ahead and...
[00:03:41.665] Valeriy Korshunov: Dive right in! My name is Valerii Korsunov. I am director of the project First Day. We are the winner of the Biennale Cinema College this year. And we present this project about the war in Ukraine and also about the change inside the people. It's like our personal experience too. Change for the first day of this situation because anybody can expect this but you can be prepared for the situation in any case. And a lot of inner, you know, challenges, problems, and something voice and something that you're not deep prepared and it's totally ruined your picture of the world. And we try to show this to the people and also share our experience how to not go into the mat in this situation and find maybe the way and solution for that. So, we find the way for helping each other, for helping the people. Because in the situation when you are not controlled, you don't control your life, but you can control maybe life of the other people or other situations. So, you need to do this and it also will help you not only just going to the mat, you know, but also helping you on different ways.
[00:04:54.996] Svitlana Korshunova: Okay, my name is Svetlana Korsunova, I'm producer of The First Day project, and it's a story about usual normal life of usual normal people, but unexpected situation and unexpected attack. We know that Ukraine not the first have this experience, but unfortunately not the last. And we want to share and to say for all people who have this situation, you are not alone, we hear you. We see you and we understand you and we try to find together the way to survive in this situation. And this project is very important for us because we want to share not only traumatic stories about this war, we want to share the story of powerful, of humanity, of connection people to people. And it's very interesting that in our story we have real stories inside. It's like creative and documentalistic. Our locations are based on real locations. Our stories are based on real stories. And in this project we used mixed reality that helps you to feel inside the world. We have a physical installation that you can touch. And we have an AR application that helps you to understand the people who are living in our space. And, of course, VR, where you can try to go through the story in the shoes of other people.
[00:06:26.591] Kent Bye: Yeah, maybe give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into working with virtual reality and augmented reality.
[00:06:33.856] Valeriy Korshunov: We work with many cultural projects in Ukraine for many years and we produce for the first year of the COVID. We produce a virtual exhibition and involve more than 100 Ukrainian artists who are also digital artists but not only and make an art residency for them and explain how to do art in digital about the techniques and like that. It was the exhibition about Chernobyl because it's our main topic that we're working for many many years. After that, in the end, we presented in Mozilla Hubs in virtual reality. It was the platform with a lot of low-poly stuff and like that. And it was really interesting and challenging. Yes, and the exhibition was really big. We also presented in the center of Kyiv on a big installation like that. And after that, we, on the next year, produced the first official application about Chernobyl. It was like the museum in the pocket, with a lot of special content, with a partnership with the National Museum, with the Exclusion Zone. I'm also like a head of the NGO, European Institute of Chernobyl, work with the Chernobyl, and like that. So it was really big, big, big work. And now we also have a next project with the museum, we scanned artifacts and like that, so we have this part of our work. And every time we use digital art and VR to explain people about Chernobyl, because it was like a touristic route and many people want to go there and we also use this technology. to show, you know, these locations also, locations that are prohibited to visit because of the radiation and like that, so we can show it. Yes, and when this war happened, the first half of the year we were in humanitarian projects, we do like, we're helping, you know, like, in different way also to the liquidators of Chernobyl catastrophe and everywhere, everywhere. and we went to the Kyiv region and understand that maybe we need to a little bit go back to the our work, you know, industry because we went also. It's like with Chernobyl, it's a really traumatic topic and the war is a little bit the same, you know. We are talking with the people and we understand it's their cruel story. It's also like the Chernobyl cruel story and we prepare for that, you know. It's hard but we know how to talk about it, how to present it, how to be gentle, how involve people to the interview, how to Not to do it so hard, you know. Sorry. So, yeah. I will make a pause for one minute.
[00:09:03.294] Svitlana Korshunova: We use new media technologies to involve modern audience to very interesting and important social topics. And our topic always was about information manipulation, about propaganda, the causes that have been after. We have Chernobyl as an example, and now we have a war as an example of propaganda works. And we want and we think that new technologies can raise the human empathy to each other. Because you have a unique opportunity to live other life in few minutes and to understand more. about people that we know. Now a lot of us saying that we understand each other, but I think these new technologies can make a real understanding of each other and situation in what the people living in different countries. and remembering that we are all people, and we all have the same situation. And now, with the beginning of the war, we start a lot of scanning, a lot of filming, we have a lot of stories and interviews, and we start to produce different VR experiences, and there's some of 36 videos, some is mixed reality with immersive instruments to explain not only that the war is not about military, War is about human story, about people who live in this situation, about a lot of civilians who just have this normal life before it, and that this situation can be repeated if we don't do anything. It can be repeated in every other country. And that's why we think that we have a unique possibility now to save this moment and to share it with the next generation and to share the people with another country for understanding in a safe way how it can be, what I can be prepared for and to understand that we are all together to do something.
[00:11:10.566] Valeriy Korshunov: Yes, I have a little headache, you know. Also, I want to say about what you see inside this experience. It's about this scanning of this location and like that. So we have a unique possibility because this war is really the most filming war, I think, because we see it online. When it was started, we see it online, how Putin declared the war in the 4 a.m. And it's like, It can't be real. I see how Sveta was sleeping with our daughter near, you know. It's like, what do I need to do? I need to wake them up and say, this war came to us or not, and like that.
[00:11:43.955] Kent Bye: So you're pointing to your hand like you're looking at your phone, like you're getting the messages in the middle of the night.
[00:11:48.538] Valeriy Korshunov: And for the first day, it was super intense because the war is coming and we do not understand what is going on. And we try to figure out on the internet, on these messages. After that, I discovered the word doomscrolling. Do you know it? I was like, ah, what is doomscrolling? Because you want to survive. I tried to explain. You want to survive and try to decide what to figure out. And Russia was using also a lot of propaganda to send the messages to understand is it real or not real and like that. your friends go outside the city and watch out. Some people stay in the shelters and watch out by the rocks and do not understand what's a good decision. You need to hide or run or what. So yes, it was really intense and it's really intense. This is why we use the telephone in our experience too. But when we are developing it, we also try to not harm the people who are like visitors, not to do it so hard way, you know, not to show the pictures of the real life, but not, you know, the harmful pictures with the bodies and like that. So it's like talking about and showing only like destroyed buildings and cars and like that. But after these buildings, you know, of ruined buildings, you see the flat, each flat, there is a story of the people who live there. You see the tons of these cars and okay, it's like a rusty car. now after each car it's like a story of the small family who won yes you can just continue
[00:13:21.261] Svitlana Korshunova: Yes, the story of people who are trying to escape the situation but can't do this. And that's why when all the situation is failure and you have no power to do something and thinking about something, We found a way, but not immediately with us. We had a call from our old friend and she asked us to help her because she's alone with two children and one in two years and the military was near her house and I didn't know what to do and can you help me? And then we start to thinking about her and try to find the way in this not normal situation and we can decide her situation, find people who can go and take her in the safe place. And then we understand, oh, we can a lot, we can a lot with our people and you need only people to people connection. And in few days all Ukraine was like one life organism. People who don't know each other helped each other a lot. And it was the brightest moment. It was moment of understanding our power that we have by just only people connection. And that we can decide every situation. Because was a lot of people who need medicines just for life. A lot of people in clinics, a lot of people who can work. And they were in really bad situation and anyone can help them, centrally only you can organize someone to help them. And when you feel this, that you can control the situation and you understand, oh, I can control my life, I know what to recommend for my parents, I know what to recommend for my friends. And you see this example of real simple heroism in every usual people around you and it really gives you power and it really gives you hope that we can survive in this situation. And it's very important to find these bright moments, to find these bright people and to think about goodness and to think about what and how we want to live after all of this. And it's very important because these really dark moments show you very important things that we forgot about in normal life. About our families, about our friends, about time that we have in just normal situation, how it's important. Here we want to share the real importance of your usual normal life and this happiness that you have if you have your own family, your own flat and this connection like you saw we have in this physical installation because all our apartments it's about our connection with our life, with our inner space but out of us. And it's very important when we talk with a lot of witnesses of the situation, when they lose this part of their life, it's really hard. Because a lot of these people have this apartment all their life. And they have all memories there, all life, the children was born there, and when it's lost, they lost part of them. And now we want to share our experience, which in very bad situation you can find this bright way to survive.
[00:16:45.936] Kent Bye: If you had anything more to say.
[00:16:49.098] Valeriy Korshunov: Sorry for that, because I was like make a few experiences before and I'm asking to the people and talking with the people about this again and again. It's like I'm going to my limbo, you know, with this fears and like that.
[00:17:00.849] Kent Bye: In the experience the throughput is that you have this physical installation of an apartment building you go in into a virtual simulation of that place that ends up getting bombed and sort of disrupted in a way and then you go to another physical installation that shows the aftermath of that and I thought that was really powerful to see the onboarding and offboarding of that but also have the virtual reality but the thing that really hit me in the heart was to see the augmented reality footage of the actual bombing of that from like security cam footage that was showing that apartment that he had reconstructed. So maybe give a bit more context as to that footage and how that became the centerpiece of this piece.
[00:17:40.193] Valeriy Korshunov: The story of this building, it's like a big building, you can see it here, it's on the center of the Kyiv, it was on the one of the first day, it was like a symbol of the war, because you see like, I was seeing this building, and Sveta was going under this building like a week before to the dentist, and Masha lived on this region, so it was like on the road, and we all know this. And when I saw on the news how the rockets go to the buildings, it was so crazy, because it can't be real. So it's also like the symbol of this war. And we also see these messages, you know, from the camp, on the charts, and it also makes this situation complete, you know, from the different sides. And after that, we discover it from the different cameras. So we decided it will be one of the main symbol of our experience because everybody understand it was like Ikea look style flat. Everybody recognized it. It's not like, I was used to different experience about the war and also I say, oh, okay, it's about East or it's about some different countries. I cannot recognize myself, you know, with this situation because it's so different from my life, you know, but this, it was like, it can be a flat that I rent, you know, it's like, and the rocket came inside. It's crazy. So we decided that it will be really good to show how the war came to your, you know, how Sveta say, yes, you're flat, but it's not only your flat, it's like your life, but inside of your life, when your children grow and like that. Yeah, so, and also we decided on the onboarding not to show it, you know, because it's like a small reference, because Some of the people on the exhibition is like wide open to every kind of experience, but for some of them it can be really traumatized, you know, we do not want to scare the people or horror them, and some of them want to discover more, yes, and if they ask, yes, we can, okay, we have like augmented reality, and also This is our photos, you know, this is our project, this is how we are lived, this is we with our child, yes, and on that side you can also see how it's impact of our life, yes, and also this is photo are changed, yes, it's not only our photo, it's a photo of the people of Ukraine, yes, of the different situation. and help some people go in more, but also make it secure for the people who are just, you know, hanging around, like, okay, this one experience, next experience, okay, I don't want it. So some of the people, like I also see, it's like people from the museums and like that, they're really interested in that. Okay, oh, how you tell your story, right? It's like gentle. This location is not about what is experienced inside. It's prepare you, right? We want to do it gentle, you know, with the people who are going there. We don't want to scream about the war, you know, and we don't put the Ukrainian flags everywhere and say something like that. We say about, it can happen with every people, because we're also with the people from different countries, like they have a truck attack in London, in France, and like that, so sometimes it can affect you, it can be road accident, yes, and after this happen, you just think like, oh, it can be real, you know. Yes.
[00:20:47.040] Svitlana Korshunova: It's very important that, like we think before and a lot of people, that the war is about military story. There's this in front and a lot of military people know what to do with this. But it was a shock in the first day that the war is about civilians, that in every war there's a lot of victims among civilians more than militaries. Because military people have some prepared for the situation and civilians people is not. And it was very important to show on this building, it's like usual building, how it can cause the war effect of it. And the simple room, the supermarket where you every day. And in this situation, it was very important to show not only the outside location, but about inner situation, what you have inside when this moment come. And all these visuals that you have on your phone, that you have on TV, that became part of your inner space. And in our experience, we try to explain how it becomes. And you need to find the way before, near your scares, near your fear, to find this way to survive. And if the situation has happened already, you just need to go. You just need to go forward. And as our poet said, it's no time to sit. It's time to do something. And it's very important that all this location, this real location, and you can see it on our photos in augmented reality, and we want to make people possibility to find themselves in historical moment and try to understand what it was for people who live there.
[00:22:35.275] Kent Bye: In the experience, you have a lot of photogrammetry, reconstructions of different scenes. And in the experience that I saw with you, you were giving me a guided tour through that. And so you've been guiding people through this spatial journey and sharing a lot of context. And I'd just love to hear a little bit more about how that's been for you to be able to do that, if that's cathartic or difficult to be immersed in these scenes and continue to tell the story. And I'd love to just hear a little bit more context for that spatial journey that you take people on.
[00:23:05.482] Valeriy Korshunov: We, when we work with Chernobyl topic, it was a bit the same, because sometimes people go to the Pripyat city and see abandoned buildings, and sometimes people go just, you know, like the amusement park of the reality when there is a nuclear bombing and like that, and the Soviet Union was felt, you know, something like that, and they love to see. Abandoned Pripyat, you know, because it's really beautiful with the trees that grow through the buildings and like that, you know, with this atmosphere. But we work with this topic and every time we explain people it's not abandoned buildings, you know, this is the people lived here, you know. I have so many stories of the liquidators on the former cities of the Pripyat who live there and it's really crazy. and also this is when sent okay it's like also with this project i think maybe we need like a guided tool because it's our story so i'm like a best explainer of what happened it's not like i know this apartment it's not like the store you know it's something more and when you go to this world with the photogrammetry it's also i see some of the people who are just run from there Okay, some people want to discover more, they look on these cars, find the holes after the bullet, you know, discover it, and like that. So, in the beginning, I just start to answer the questions, because the people were just asking me, like, what is it? I heard that this is a real photo scan, is it? I said, yes. From what city? I said, from that city. And we start, you know, like, in a conversation. Also, this main location, it's like a peak in the center, and some people have a lot of questions after it, and we talk a lot after the experience. And I decided that sometimes I will make like an excursion, because it will be really good for the people to be involved in this situation. We have a story in our experience, but as I said, it's gentle, so it's not a game. We can't use a lot of game mechanics, you know, just entertainment about the world. We want to show it in a gentle way. And the people also decide, if they want to go further, you know, they put information about this, okay, it's a real story, right? And they put it inside, and many of them asking questions, like, before, inside, the experience. We think that this project can be like a virtual museum of the war, or something like that, because we are scanning artifacts and buildings, some of them do not exist now, because people want to clear it. You know, I go to the Borodyanka city and understand, in the summer, In the summer it was really green, you know, as we see the buildings, but it was ruined. And the people want to paint the fence, paint the road, you know, make it clear, because it's so crazy to live in these monuments of the war, you will go mad. So people want to disassemble it, repair it, because once you repair it, it makes you believe that it will be good, you know, it will be everything okay. So, this is why it's important to scan it at this moment, you know, because people want to hide it and forget it. Some people say that it's unrespectable for our generation to clear it, you know, we need to start at the moment and to show how it was. I say yes, from one way, but I also talk with the people and understand it can be, because people It's so hard this situation that they have and stuck in this situation is super crazy. So I totally understand why they want to rebuild, you know, repair and to forget. And I think they have totally rights for that and whether to do this. So we have the possibility to show this moment of the story inside the experience. And I think it's a really good possibility, you know, to not go to the frontier of the war, but I think it's a hard day because I've talked a lot, again and again. Also, when I was producing experience, we also, when I worked with this SMS and like that, it was like a half a year after this moment, and I was discovered this type of SMS, because after that I have like a, I don't know how many thousands of messages on, messages like telegram and like that, on this group, but I found this SMS and worked with it, it's gone me crazy, you know, I sit in the night in VR and cry, and so it's like, yes, yes.
[00:27:23.832] Svitlana Korshunova: When we pitch the project the main challenge was don't cry when you pitch because it's really too hard because when you live through the situation it's really traumatic and you try to be like an artist and think about but your brain is remembering so it's real. and you have this situation. And yes, it's a simple thing that we have every day and a lot of people. And I think it's really important to have this really high level of empathy to understand what happened. And if we'll be thinking about people to people, not country to country, yes, about people to people and what they live, how they live their lives now, it will be helpful for all of us. Yes, and when we work on this project, yes, when you work with content, you think, oh, I'm now make me too hard. And it's every time, OK, but I need to find a way to explain, but not trauma. And it's really a hard decision, but we need to find a way to be gentle in this situation and try to explain what we have in experience.
[00:28:35.121] Valeriy Korshunov: Also it was challenging of production this project because we also have like a four months and I think now I think we have like a super big project maybe for this kind of event because it's like some of the guy went like a half an hour to do you know explain and like that and we have like a nine scene like that, so maybe we need a bit shorter for that. But we think about a virtual museum, so we try to show all, you know. And four months, it's a really short period for that. And we decided in the beginning that we will try to involve as many Ukrainians as we can, because also we know a lot of people who work in the VR or game industry who are stuck in the moment. And one of our developers, Sergey from Odessa, He sent his family like a year after to the Germany. They have a daughter and wife and he's not work with the VR like from the beginning of the war. He was working with visualization, make the VR for the flats and for the people who sell it. And from the beginning of the war he not work because And also it's like a little bit, you know, artistic thing and not people want to do this because it's the war, okay. And I also involved him and he was doing the 3D model, something like that. And after the months ago, it was a big challenge on the Odessa to the port system or something like that. And he had no connection for the two days and typed me like, Valera, you know, maybe I will late with this 3D model, because, you know, like, just to be alive, so not a problem, just back when you came. And like that also we have a problem with our one of the developer, because he was also like missing for the two weeks. I didn't know where he is. And after the Russians destroyed the Kakhovskaya dam, He have relatives on this region and he from Kiev go to this region without cell connection and do everything and just go back and say that now I have my relatives, they live with me and I also cannot produce a project because I need the money, I need this and project looks so good but I need to fix everything with my relatives because they have problem. with everything, not only with documents, but also they need to go to the hospital. So, okay, mate, I have no problem to you, I love you, so do your best and come when you want. So we change the people, you know, some people just came for us and do something pro bono, like, okay, it's an important product, I will do this part, okay, okay, guys, take yourself, yeah. Yeah, so it's an interesting moment. It's like a capture of the moment of the war, you know, and I think it's also a big possibility to present it here on the Biennale, because also it's like, it's not a project about the Second World, you know, like, far, far, it's now, it still happen. And now, if you want to go deeper in this topic, you can go and see how it's inside. You don't need to go to the frontier and under the shell and see it. But it's also making the big importance that it's helped the people. We have this experience of the war. We want to share it to the people not only about, you know, about destruction and about panic attack, okay, about, how Sveta say, about the bright moment. Because the war for me, it's the moment, you know, when I see the bad sides of the people and also the brighter side. So it's super cool to see how the people survive, how they help each other and like that.
[00:31:58.374] Svitlana Korshunova: It's a moment of rethinking. It's an important moment for rethinking. And if we now talk about technical issues, our project is more than 200 gigabytes, yes, now.
[00:32:12.835] Valeriy Korshunov: and it looks photorealistic, we try also. We changed the VR helmet in the last moment because we want to present it, you know, maximum resolution with the feeling that you are inside the situation. We have some models that have like 60K textures, so it's super photorealistic sometimes. It's one of the most photorealistic things I've seen on the VR helmet. Also, we think that we can produce this project on the Pimax Crystal, and we also pay for that and we have a delay with the shipment and they say us we will do it now we have it on our yes on our flat they do it but we are already here yes but I think we can't show it on this helmets because we try to use equipment really powerful graphic card and we not use the Wi-Fi link we use the back this but even on that sometimes it's really hard to present but other way I understand it's the unique possibility to show this moment Because it's not only about the picture or something reference to the war, yes, to some historical moments, reconstruction, like that. We also not try to push some moments on the face of the visitor, right? We're just showing to the experience, to the road, and the people go and see it and decide it by themselves, trying to figure out how it was. And we're not to push for the decisions and like that. We're just showing how it was. And also based on our story, because this SMS and the photos, it's how I was feel it. So this is not narrative story also, because I do narration from the outside, as you say, sometimes. But also it's a big challenge, because I see the other experience like, oh, you have a narration, or you have a character. Yes, you play a role of someone else. we decided that it will be experienced with no role, so this is you. When you're inside it, this is you, this is your story, which I'll just show this road and these things inside. So, yes, many challenges, yes.
[00:34:12.300] Svitlana Korshunova: In the future, we want to make the possibility to have choices inside, to help someone or not help. How your experience will depend on then of your choices inside. We have this in when we're programming and when we have building, we have this a lot of variants of the situations that it can be. And we're interested to make it because we want to have a statistic, what people do in the situation, to show them what it can be, what you decide in the situation, and it will be like a future more immersive, more challenges and more decisions. and we won't really make like a simulator that can help you, oh, how I will feel in this situation, what I will do, and it's a really important thing to understand yourself, because no one know how we will do in this, and it's like a possibility to make you stronger and to understand, oh, maybe next time it will be better to do different thing.
[00:35:12.556] Valeriy Korshunov: Tell about backpack.
[00:35:14.330] Svitlana Korshunova: Yes, we have in our stories like backpack. We have all these stories because when it was a lot of rumors about war and all said you need to prepare your backpack, your emergency bag, I just need to have at home. Okay, no, I don't do anything. I have some things home. Okay, next day you go to supermarket, buy something, buy some medicine. Then I start to thinking, oh, maybe I need some water. Okay, but all these things just was in your flat, not packages.
[00:35:44.779] Valeriy Korshunov: On this corner we have these things. I prepared.
[00:35:48.944] Svitlana Korshunova: In any case, I have it. And it was a really often question, do you prepare your backpack? No, I just try, but I can't, I have no time for this. And when the situation is coming, you have no possibility to be clear in the situation, yes. And you just take everything, you don't understand what you need or not to eat and a lot of people forgot very important things like documents or medicine or some things that you go out on the street and wow, I have no cell connection. what I need, where I need to go. We are really important connection with our phones and if you have no charge or you have no cell it's really important situation and that's why in our experience we have this sandwich backpack and just a few minutes that you need to decide what you need with you or what you don't need and for all this 10 is the phone is like siren alert that another bombshelling is coming and you need to understand that you have no time. It will be better if you know what you need in your backpack and you will be prepared before.
[00:37:02.732] Valeriy Korshunov: With the flashlight, everybody says, OK, we have a flashlight. But nobody uses a flashlight, everybody uses a phone for the flashlight. And now, in the time of the blackouts in Ukraine, also like last winter, we didn't use the flashlight because nobody uses it. You can use a telephone, you know, you can put it on the pocket or something like that. And also, people forget about documents and we have stories when the people go to the border, you know, and go out because, ah, I forgot my passport, you know, in Kyiv, like 100 kilometers, so like that. So, yes, yes.
[00:37:34.818] Svitlana Korshunova: Yes, it's a lot of different things. It's important not only physically and how you can control your panic attack. It's a simple way to control your breath, to control your heartbreak and to control your mind. And it's more important even physical some things, but also you all need to know how to make first aid. You don't think that you don't need it. It's okay, but you just need to know it's very important and can save any life and that's why yeah, you can think that it will never happen with you, but We recommend it to be prepared to any situation
[00:38:15.716] Valeriy Korshunov: It's an experience that we share our experience and it's really useful because it's better to test it, understand how it works and not involve in real life. It's better than it will be not useful for your life but better to taste it and understand how it can be.
[00:38:35.212] Kent Bye: I think part of my own experience of this piece was to hear each of your stories as you were able to take me through these spaces both in the onboarding and offboarding and adding in a lot of additional context and you know there was issues with the sound or music that you were like you know instead of that then you gave me this live performance of a guided tour which I think and I a lot of ways it was really quite perfect as a way to experience this piece and I'm sure as you continue to evolve and think about how to capture the magic of that interactive guided tour or embed that into like there's pieces of text in the piece that give a little bit of context but yeah as you move forward and make it more self-contained because you're not going to be able to give that live performance guided tour to everybody who sees it but yeah I happen to really find it quite moving and powerful as a piece and congratulations on the BNLA college win and Yeah, as we start to wrap up and think about the medium of VR and this project and what you're able to do, what do you think the ultimate potential of a project like this and a medium of storytelling might be and what it might be able to enable?
[00:39:35.291] Valeriy Korshunov: No, I think we think not about the game, but maybe about like experience, with not on the post-apocalyptic style. I think it will be a little bit different, maybe for the museums, but I think it will be like something new, like a standalone, because it's not about entertainment. We will not use the mechanics from the games. But it's also very useful stuff. I was I don't remember the Polish game It's about as I remember about the Second World War and this game is on the program for the schools like kids need to play this game because it's also about The Second World War and you need to decide what to do help these guys or not and it helped to tell the story of this situation or bring the people to these moments, but it was also not like a game, you know. It was something different, like a quest, you know, from the old times or something like that. So we think war is a really serious topic and we don't want to do this, like, entertainment about Second World War, when there's, like, a call of duty and like that, when the people, you know, it's about shelling. about action like that. So we think to develop this as like a... We told that this is a VR museum, but it's not like a museum of the war. It's mostly a museum of the people's stories, you know, and such kind of the moment. And we have a few new projects because, as I said, we already film in 360 and like that, but it's more about collecting the testimonies of the people, these stories, because this is most important. to collect this situation and present it, you know, after the years and years to the child and to the world. So we think about like a platform for telling the stories about the world. And also we don't want... it's really hard to produce, you know, this art piece. And I understand that I can't do this 10 years. I will go mad, really. But it's really, really important. And we want to involve other companies and the people to produce, you know, the different part. also with a different angle of view of the situation because we have like our own experience like I'm and Sveta we have our own family who was on the Kiev region but on the Kharkiv region it was a little bit different yes and they because they have a shell in the morning so Putin declared war and in a few minutes they have a rocket shell from the whole city you know it was bombed like that So I have also guys from the Harki and they have a different connection and view of this topic. We want to involve them for the next project and we will just help them to bring their stories inside.
[00:42:06.077] Svitlana Korshunova: We think in the future about a big immersive platform where we can share our experience, where we can share our technologies and our spaces that will be ready already and we invite some different directors and producers just to choose a story and try to tell because my opinion that VR industry is really needed from people from audiovisual industry with their storytelling and all of this and it will help VR industry to rise. and in other cases the film industry really needs people from VR because it's a lot of new possibilities to tell a story and to use different technologies and mechanics. And for our future we want to have this immersive space and to work with live characters and to work with different storytelling and to mix and find the way how we can share our real experience, people experience of situation, how we can rebuild historical moments, how we can share our knowledge, our human knowledge with other people who will be after us. And I think these new technologies that we have, they're helping people to understand ourselves more better. And it's really a unique time that we live on, because we have all these technologies, we have all this connection between us, and we really can make a revolution, but in good things about it, about knowing ourselves better.
[00:43:39.392] Kent Bye: Awesome. Is there anything else that's left unsaid that you'd like to say to the broader immersive community?
[00:43:44.642] Svitlana Korshunova: I want to say that all people who just can hear us, it's very important to us to be part of Biennale Cinema College. It's a unique place and I recommend to all to try to be the part of this unique atmosphere with this space of talented people, artists, producers. and to have a time to work with your project in so Unicom space with some Unicom mentors and experts who don't tell you what you need to do but ask what you try to do and it's really the most effective way to work on project and to make it's a really big part and it's very interesting that in all this project we have at beginning 10 projects and we will be happy if everyone will win because the projects always excellent. Selection like in Biennale is perfect and in the Cinema College is a lot of networking, a lot of great contacts and a lot of first feedbacks that you need for make your experience great and we're really thankful for Biennale Cinema College, for Michael, for Sabina, for mentors that we have and for us. It was like most safe space to start to work on our project because we come to Biennale Cinema College from fully blackout Ukraine. We have no electricity. We have electricity only two hours a day.
[00:45:12.433] Valeriy Korshunov: It's also like a water, warm and like that. So it's like only two hours you have something and after that you're just sitting in the empty, dark, cold room and looking on the wall and just understand what you need, how you need to arrange it and manage it, yes.
[00:45:28.593] Svitlana Korshunova: Yes, and you can't work if you work online or if you work with technologies. It's impossible to work with you. And then when you start to think about it, what you need to do in this way, in the Biennale Cinema College was the best way for us. and I think that our project became real only... I'm grateful for this project because it was really too hard to start to talk about it and to make a single piece about it because it was a lot of stories and a lot of experience that we have and to find the way and we thank Biennale, it's very important and I recommend to all to try this experience.
[00:46:10.712] Valeriy Korshunov: I want to join Sveta. This is one of the best programs that I take part in. It's a super effective program and the people are so cool here and the professional and the different angle of view. It was amazing and also for us it was a really powerful moment because We were focused on the war, because we were in this situation. And when we go to the Venice, and find the people, and talking about immersive technology, it's about the future. So it's about the future. And to see the people who are working on it, also like a passion, you know, that is super cool. Yes, because in Ukraine, we were also in a humanitarian project, and it's quite a different type of life, you know. We were going back to our professional life, you know. Talking with the people who understand us and help us. in a really gentle way to work with us and to work with this topic because it's really hard to work with it. Yes, but they help us a lot, you know, also find the language for this art piece, find some few moments, you know. Oh, it was super, super, yes, yes. A big thanks for everybody and for Michael, yes, and Sabina, and Jane, and yes. I will grate all my life for this.
[00:47:22.767] Kent Bye: Yeah, it's a really beautiful piece and I look forward to, you know, as you continue to develop it and tighten it up as it starts to go out into the world. Just really happy to have had a chance to see it and get a real personal guided tour through it from you. And I could just tell there's a lot of heart and soul and passion against all odds in a lot of ways to make this project happen. So thanks so much for creating it and for taking the time to help explain your process and unpack it a little bit more. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:47:50.498] Svitlana Korshunova: Thank you very much for coming and the experience.
[00:47:53.739] Kent Bye: Thanks for listening to this interview from Fitness Immersive 2023. You can go check out the Critics' Roundtable in episode 1305 to get more breakdown in each of these different experiences. And I hope to be posting more information on my Patreon at some point. There's a lot to digest here. I'm going to be giving some presentations here over the next couple of months and tune into my Patreon at patreon.com slash Voices of VR, since there's certainly a lot to digest about the structures and patterns of immersive storytelling, some of the different emerging grammar that we're starting to develop, as well as the underlying patterns of experiential design. So that's all I have for today, and thanks for listening to the Voices of VR podcast. And again, if you enjoyed the podcast, then please do spread the word, tell your friends, and consider becoming a member of the Patreon. This is a listener-supported podcast, and so I do rely upon donations from people like yourself in order to continue to bring this coverage. So you can become a member and donate today at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. Thanks for listening.
