Here’s my interview with Sonya Haskins, Head of Programming at Augmented World Expo, that was conducted on Friday, June 2, 2023 at Augmented World Expo in Santa Clara, CA. This is part 1 of 2 of my conversations with Haskins, you can see part 2 from 2025 here. See more context in the rough transcript below.
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Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.458] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR Podcast. It's a podcast that looks at the structures and forms of immersive storytelling and the future of spatial computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. So continuing on my series on AWE, past and present, today's interview is with Sonia Haskins, who's the head of programming at AWE. So Sony has a really interesting journey into VR in terms of like being a mom who had her son get her into virtual reality gaming and then her doing some journalism within that space and then eventually getting into the XR industry and now is like the head of programming at Augmented World Expo. And so she's pretty much responsible for like curating and communicating with over 400 speakers to create the program and facilitate all of the different panels and just bringing people together to talk around different topics. And so I've been in touch with her for a number of years. She's invited me to come and speak on different panels on artificial intelligence. But in this conversation, I'm just trying to get a sense for Sonia and her process and what she's looking for. And, you know, just as a community organizer, how she's able to kind of really bring community together of AWE. And I also had a chance to catch up with her at AWE 2025, which is a little bit more of a snapshot of her view of the program and the larger trends within the industry. So I We'll be getting into that in the next episode, but just wanted to get a little bit more of Sonya's origin story of becoming the head of programming at AWE and the role that she plays in terms of helping to facilitate the larger discussions that are happening in the context of AWE with like over 450 speakers and lots of talks that are mostly all up online as well that you can check out on their YouTube channel. So we're covering all that and more on today's episode of the Voices of VR podcast. So this interview with Sonia happened on Friday, June 2nd, 2023 at Augmented World Expo in Santa Clara, California. So with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:02:01.485] Sonya Haskins: I'm Sonya Haskins, and I'm head of programming for AWE. And that means that I set up all the program, the speakers, the sessions, the special main stage, maybe last year, magic tricks, and esports events, all the programming, basically. So I love it.
[00:02:19.901] Kent Bye: Awesome. So maybe you could give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into VR.
[00:02:24.790] Sonya Haskins: Yeah, sure. So I didn't even know what XR was before 2017. And some people say, you know, professionally, oh, you shouldn't tell people that. No, I mean, the fact is I didn't. And I'm always very truthful about that and honest. And I think that's part of what makes the... journey special and it's not just my journey I've heard many people say that that they try the technology and it's very very special and unique and it's something that anyone can use and love because it puts you into a story or it gives you experiences that you otherwise wouldn't have and so for me my own personal journey was my oldest son was leaving for Afghanistan he was headed away for deployment and He was very young, wanted me to try virtual reality in a store, Best Buy store, and so I went in and put it on and I really hadn't used tech before that and hadn't really been interested in anything like that, but he said, I think you'll like this. So I put it on and basically I just had that moment where I was like, wow, man, I mean, we could be using this for so much, like we could use it for education and healthcare and training and it could be fun or whatever and so I immediately bought it, bought the headset, asked my son if I could buy his computer from him, bought that, paid it off and started playing and then I just was pretty good at it so I started a team for a multiplayer game I had been playing, Echo Arena, and then Went and competed in California and while I was there because I got invited to oculus connect because my team qualified for the league they had started the VR league and so I competed and basically realized while I was there because I got to try a lot of demos and I thought this is just so amazing like it's so amazing to put on a headset and and you're in another world like you feel like you're actually in another world and so started writing articles because I'm a journalist by trade and I wrote articles about various developers and games and apps and things that I enjoyed and I just did that for several years and then promoted community and got involved with a lot of communities and then last february of 2022 ori inbar who's the founder of awe he invited me to have a phone conversation with him and said you know do you have a job yet and i was like no and so basically he said would you like a job working with us and i was like well i mean what would i be doing and so that's how i end up in this job people are always like how did that work out and I was like well it was just a fluke I think he knew that I would be I really loved community and so I feel very fortunate to be here doing what I'm doing I love it and you know I'm very I'm not a prideful sort of person I usually try to put others in the limelight and lift them up and I enjoy doing that but I actually am pretty good at this and I love it like I enjoy the job and so I think it's nice to find something that where you fit that you can fit in and bring joy to others with what you're doing. And so I'm really happy to be here.
[00:05:45.144] Kent Bye: Yeah, well, this edition of over the 14th year of Augmented World Expo and this edition in 2023, there were 450 speakers. And it sounds like that you may have been a part of maybe some of all of those people. So maybe you could talk about what was the process of trying to curate this program this year with so many speakers and so many sessions?
[00:06:06.345] Sonya Haskins: Yes, so basically there are a few different things that happen. We have, of course we have sponsors and exhibitors, and so some speakers come to me through that avenue. Let's say they're a sponsor or exhibitor and they want someone to speak. They can let me know that, but I also still have, I guess, parameters would be the best word, things I'm looking for. I want speakers to still be qualified, you know, know about the material. They should be dynamic, interesting speakers, and they should have good content, something that they won't share for the audience. I also look for people who, you know, diversity in the program, like you don't just only want one gender or race or demographic. You just don't want one demographic on your stage. And so I try to go, whether it's sponsors and exhibitors or people that come to me, sometimes Ori and others on the team will give me a list. I ask people, who would you like to see speak? So he'll give me a list and I ask others in the community and say, what kind of speakers or who would you like to hear speak at the event? So that's another way I build a list. And then I also look among our community and see people who I think are doing fantastic things and talking about cool stuff and this is my favorite part actually, Kent, so for the speakers that I love to find the most, I like looking around and seeing these people are doing great things and maybe nobody knows about it but I can shine a light on them and help others become familiar with what their doing or how they're using XR to make the world better or, you know, improve or enhance people's lives. That's my favorite thing because then maybe they wouldn't otherwise have a platformer or a way to get that out. And so anyway, I find speakers all these different ways. I look at their previous speaking experience and check to see, you know, are they a skilled speaker and talk with them. So there's a lot that goes into it, honestly.
[00:08:13.482] Kent Bye: So of the 450 speakers, how many did you have personal interactions with ahead of the conference?
[00:08:19.325] Sonya Haskins: All of them. I think all of them. At the event itself, I didn't get to go actually talk with every single one, but I'd say a pretty good number of them.
[00:08:32.287] Kent Bye: So yeah, I guess as you were covering the Echo Arena communities, you were really trying to feature different people. So it seems like that type of spotlighting of those communities, rather than a journalistic context, now it's in this conference context where you're able to do your own curation, but also cultivation of the community in a way.
[00:08:47.651] Sonya Haskins: yeah i mean i just really enjoy that human interest sort of aspect of any relationships and building communities and so truthfully i'm head of programming here but it's very much a community job for me and so sometimes when people do that sort of job they just do the work and they still do a fantastic job but they're focused purely on the program itself And definitely I want the program to be excellent, but for me, I approach it kind of a backwards way where the program's going to be excellent if I have excellent people in the program. So, you know, it's a little bit of a different way to look at it. But yeah, when I was with ECHO and promoting the game, I'd promote the game, the leagues, the people, and then even if they had competitions and stuff with the Oculus League, I would go and interview the players. I'd send them like surveys and do interviews and stuff, find out their, you know, backgrounds and where they were from, what their professions were that sort of thing and then create handbooks and little guides that the casters could use to announce on stage or on streams and so all that ties back into this whole idea of when you just try to remember what's special about people and help them remember that too and point it out to others and just shine a light on them I think it just makes the world a brighter place overall and so you know, that's what I enjoy doing. And I feel like people here have hopefully also felt that and really seen like everybody has something special to offer, but also there's also something they like or enjoy. So like when I'm creating the program, back to that for a second, that's one of the things I'm thinking about. Is this person interested in the hardware, the software, the application of it, interested in how it can do good in the world? Is it something that is important for accessibility purposes for them or health care or fitness or whatever? So I try to approach it from the mindset of I want every single person who comes through the doors and buy registration ticket to come to our event to feel like there was something there for them that was special, that was made just for them. It was put on the agenda or the program, the overall program, just for them. And so I heard people saying they felt like this aspect or that aspect was just right for what they're interested in. And that brings me so much joy.
[00:11:26.297] Kent Bye: Yeah, well, I know that even with the panel that I was on, there's different last-minute changes that people can't make it for one reason or another. And then I heard that there's been a number of layoffs within the tech industry. And so I know a number of folks from Meta that were supposed to be here and a lot of folks on the policy teams and whatnot that were going to come and speak. But then you also have, with those layoffs, people who don't have a job, and so there's been other efforts and initiatives here at AWE to either give them a pass, or I heard that there was even a job fair that was impromptu, and so I'd love to hear about some of those different dynamics of what's happening in the broader tech industry and how that may have impacted what you're doing on your job, but ways that you're trying to react to that.
[00:12:04.093] Sonya Haskins: Yeah, that's a great question, and I have felt really bad, you know, the past several months. It's not just the ones over the past couple weeks, but definitely the past several months have been hard, and we have had a lot of layoffs in the industry overall. Basically, two quick things on that. One is that anyone who was laid off and lost their company, If they were already speaking because they have knowledge and they're an expert in that field, that's why they're speaking. I actually offered all those people the opportunity to still speak without the company logo. so that their knowledge would still be shared and then, you know, they have the opportunity to meet others and find more work and stuff. But that was one thing that I think a lot of people appreciated and because we still want to allow them to share that knowledge. And then people who couldn't for whatever reason, maybe their talk was explicitly tied to their work at the company or something, those people were still offered a free pass to come. because, you know, we want them to be able to do that and appreciate their willingness to be here. We did have the job fair, which was fantastic as well, and other employers that are looking for jobs could talk with them then about that. And I heard several people who said they found some different opportunities, which is absolutely fantastic. However, the other flip side of this, which isn't a bad thing at all, as sad as I am for all those people that have lost jobs, we also have a lot of companies that are now doing a little bit of rearranging where they're saying, wow, man, like we've got some of the best talent in the world available right now in XR. And so you have some of the brightest minds in this industry on these topics with knowledge that are starting companies and coming together to form companies with others who they always liked or respected and wanted to work together, but they couldn't because they were with competing companies or whatever. And so there's so much flux and so many things happening right now. And I saw and I'm aware of some of the things that were happening here at AWE with some of those people. And it's fantastic. That's a good thing when you see it's not all bad. You've got to look for that opportunity and say, wow, here's a great thing that we can turn this into something good. And I will be very interested to see what happens in about... Oh, I don't know. The next three to five years, because of all the laughs that have happened, who are going to be the big movers and shakers and all that stuff in another few years? Because I think that it's going to be interesting to see.
[00:14:44.266] Kent Bye: Yeah, well, when you were putting together the program this year, I know there's a number of hot topics and emerging themes. Artificial intelligence is one that's a hot topic that I was personally covering a lot. I was on a panel about the intersection of the AI and the metaverse that was very well attended. I got a lot of positive feedback from people talking about it because it's such a hot, hot topic between these two things. Also, the buzz at the conference was the impending Apple announcement that is, by all accounts, going to be happening and actually happening on Monday. And so people are really excited about that. And there's one person named Javier that told me that it's the end of the beginning. So we're at this liminal space where when Apple enters into this ecosystem, then it's going to be a new epoch of the next phase of this industry. So it feels like we've been in this beginning phase and you've kind of outgrown this space. You're going to be moving into a new space next year in L.A. And so, yeah, I'd love to hear about some of the different emerging trends and themes as you were putting together this conference. What were the hot topics that you felt that needed to be highlighted?
[00:15:43.274] Sonya Haskins: Well, it's kind of funny, cause you know, last year was my first year to be in charge of the conference and the AI and virtual beans track, we had it just, I think it was like a half a day, maybe a half a day, one day before I took over. And then last year I, or I can't, I don't even know if they had it. I think they did before that, but then I had one day last year. And just looking at everything that was happening in the industry, I was like, you know, I think we might want to do two days this year. And so we did. I'm so glad I made that decision last fall because it was definitely a hot topic now, you know, eight months later. And so that was a great experience. great transition and a lot of things that were discussed especially just mostly because of things like chat GPT and things like that I mean they have to be it's great to see all that but we do have to talk about it and address any issues or potential issues and say okay yeah we've got this AI developing very quickly how is this going to affect us what choices are we going to make as we continue to create the programs that do this, you know, what sort of safeties need to be in place. And I don't know, I mean, I think it's all just cool. I try not to get too much into the nitty gritty of it and just enjoy the watching everybody have their little discussions and such. So some of that to me, I do have opinions on it, but it's just more like as far as the overall answer to the question, the big trends and everything that definitely would be one and then the other changes of course that we've had headsets now so many headsets over the past several years and so i think it's to the point where everybody's seeing what works what doesn't work what people prefer what the cost points are and what they need to be able to do do we want to focus on enterprise education gaming like there's so many things that people just been playing around the past several years in terms of seeing where do we want to go with it. Like as a company, individual companies I'm saying, like they each have to make those decisions. So for me, I'm not ever saying anything is the absolute right or wrong way. I just think it's cool to watch all the progression and it's just fascinating. It really is.
[00:17:58.162] Kent Bye: Do you have any thoughts about what might be happening with Apple next week?
[00:18:02.464] Sonya Haskins: Do I have thoughts? Yeah.
[00:18:10.615] Kent Bye: Would you be willing to share them?
[00:18:13.657] Sonya Haskins: Sorry. Well, so my total focus on the Apple event has been, this is just really crazy, but I have never been to Malibu because I haven't been to, you know, I've only been to California now. I always come from work, but it's mostly Santa Clara. So I got invited to an Apple Watch party next week. And I'm going to an Apple Watch party and reveal in Malibu on Monday while that's happening. And so I'm very excited. And that's all I can really think about right now as far as in terms of the Apple reveal, because I'm just like... This is going to be exciting and there's supposed to be some special people there that I don't even know if I can or whatever you say. I really don't know. I'm just like along for the ride.
[00:19:12.619] Kent Bye: Well, one thing that I will say in the past that we've had community-driven events like VRLA, SVVR. One of the things that they ran into is that for a while, you'd have companies like at Facebook at the time, now Meta, would at the beginning start to have a presence at some of these places. But eventually, they would take a step back and almost became antagonistic to those community-driven events. But now here at AWE 2023, you have Meta, you have Niantic, you have Snap, you have Magic Leap, you have Qualcomm, all these big players within the ecosystem. Do you expect that we might be able to see a company like Apple at a future Augmented World Expo?
[00:19:49.457] Sonya Haskins: Oh, I think so. I mean, I would hope so. I'm not this specs person. I don't do that, but totally, man. I'd love to have them come speak, and I think that if you're asking me if I think they're going to have a device, then the answer is yes, I think so.
[00:20:05.299] Kent Bye: Well, I just meant that if you feel like there's been a bit of like Apple's been very secretive and not really engaging with the community. And I feel like that they've traditionally with other, like in say machine learning context, they haven't really necessarily always participated in the NIPS conference or like participating in open source. They're very secretive and closed. And so AWE being a very community driven event, I'm just wondering if we can hope to, I'm just, you know, For anybody from Apple listening to this, I'm just sort of nudging them. It'd be nice to have them, a participant in this broader community. I would love to see them here. But anyway, I just thought, get your thoughts on that as a program manager.
[00:20:40.976] Sonya Haskins: Yes, now I understand the question. And so, yeah, we would absolutely love to have them, AWE, of course. And, you know, I think the thing is that you can always do things without being... Well, let's say you can do things different ways. Of course, everybody does. But for me, as you know, I'm definitely a community person. And I definitely think that's the way to grow your business, whatever the business is. Because when you make people feel like they're part of your... product because they're invested in it, because they love it and they love you and they want to be part of that growth, then that is going to exponentially increase your return because you're investing in the people who then turn around and are totally committed to you. And so that's why I think community is important for companies. You know, like, community is important because I think people are important. But I think from a company perspective, you have to always realize that there's so much opportunity there when you really just show people that you care about them. And so, yes, I mean, we would obviously love to have them, and I think that... it would be great to show them how much we love XR. So if they have an XR product, they need to be at AWE so that everybody can just give them the love too, you know, share it with them and let them really introduce whatever it is they have in the future to introduce to the very most awesomest people in the world that are involved with the future of this industry.
[00:22:14.232] Kent Bye: Awesome. And what type of immersive VR, AR, or XR experiences do you want to personally have?
[00:22:21.894] Sonya Haskins: Oh, now, I think, I don't remember if you know this or not, but, you know, I'm kind of a little violent. Remember that? Did I tell you that before? Oh, yeah, I have to have experiences with a lot of action and, like, hitting things or bursting things or whatever. Yeah, that's what I like.
[00:22:40.099] Kent Bye: Any games that come to mind like that?
[00:22:42.594] Sonya Haskins: Yeah, I like, of course, Echo, but I won't be able to play that anymore. But anything like FitXR, or I've been playing a little bit. This isn't actually punching stuff, but Galactic Catch. I've been helping with Baobab Studios some with that, and so I've been fishing a little bit, which isn't usually my thing, but I like it with them because you have to reel in the fishing line to catch the fish and stuff. So I'm still going to do a little bit of action, and I love the graphics. And just anything that involves... where I'm moving, and so I do play some Beat Saber. I love Pistol Whip. I love Pistol Whip. I think it's great. You know, do you play Pistol Whip?
[00:23:20.674] Kent Bye: I haven't played it regularly. I played it at the very beginning when it first came out, so trying to testing it through, but I haven't kept up with it. I know folks like Nani De La Pena play it a lot as well.
[00:23:28.874] Sonya Haskins: Yeah, I love that. And so anything like that, that I can just move and play. I like, sometimes I play story-based games, but not so often. I do think they're fantastic, and a lot of my friends play them. I know a lot of people my age who like those story-based games, but I don't know. I'm just a little bit too ADHD, I think. I have to, like, really be active a lot, and so... And it's one of the nice things about VR, and like other things you have options with in life, but VR is one of those things where there are a lot of options, so there's literally something for everybody. And occasionally I also watch documentaries and stuff in VR, or stories, you know, where you're doing different, just heartfelt stories and things. I love that, though I have to be careful because they really touch you, and so... I have had my share of fogged up headsets where I'm sitting there crying in the thing. But yeah, it's cool.
[00:24:28.026] Kent Bye: Great. And what do you think the ultimate potential of XR might be and what it might be able to enable?
[00:24:35.232] Sonya Haskins: Oh, I think the potential is endless. I mean, that's just, you know, I foresee a point where We definitely, people say, well, like we love these in-person events, right? We love them. We all have had such a great time this week, but we can't always be together. And so when we're not together like this in physical reality, then to me, the very next best thing is being together in VR. and if you're going to have let's say you have people in places where maybe there's a certain mindset that girls let's say shouldn't do a certain thing like learn certain things or whatever and and this sounds weird to people who aren't used to that mindset but i can tell you right now there's a lot of discrimination still and and social standards for people like even with me You know, I learned so much. I'm 52 years old right now, and I started doing VR six years ago. I learned more about the world, let's say, relationships, people, and things after I started doing VR probably than I had known in my life before that about certain things. without getting into much detail on that, but I'm just saying that it's important. And VR offers you an opportunity in a safe environment where you're in a headset around, you're not just hanging out with your friends, where you can talk about those things and it still feels real. So I think that just growth of humanity is one thing, but also education, healthcare. I do believe there'll be a point at which where we now have like Zoom calls and stuff where somebody may want to hop into VR when we have full body tracking and stuff that's easier to use on a home basis. that people will be able to go and there are also some things now they're making where you can even scan yourself and show stuff like maybe somebody's at home in a place where they can't get out as easily and they can scan that and show it in an environment where a medical professional can then look and say oh yeah you know it doesn't look like you actually broke your leg it just like whatever you know I'm just saying there's so much potential we're only right now I think starting to really people are really starting to grasp the potential of it And if they think about, let's say, for example, A.I. several years, maybe 10 years ago, they thought, oh, that's cool. And that's a cool concept. And people made movies about it and, you know, how I can be smart and answer questions or do whatever. And then look where we are today, where people are literally like, oh, my gosh, it's going to take over the world. And so it's one of those things where I think that this technology is growing and changing faster than maybe people anticipated and I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm just saying that they have to really open their minds up to be open to the possibilities of how we can use it. Don't try to put things in a box. I don't like to say it's going to be this specific use case. I like to say It's an endless use case. You know, there are endless use cases. That's why I answered it that way at first. Like, when people tell me at first, well, when they learned I played seated and they said, well, nobody plays seated. And I'm like, well, nobody told me that. And I mean, you know, and I do because I had been in a wheelchair the year before and I just could not stand that long. And I still have trouble with it. You've seen it here at this event. I'm having a lot of trouble walking right now because I've been up for a few days. And so I have blood clots in my abdomen. and it makes it really painful and hard to walk. So I definitely place seated. And I think if someone had told me initially, you can use this, but you have to do this standing, I'm pretty stubborn so I probably would have tried seeded anyway but my point is that nobody did and it never crossed my mind and it's the same way to me with experiences if we don't tell people this is what it's going to be and this is how you have to use it or this is what you have to make what apps you have to make then maybe we will allow creatives and people who are just really trying to think outside the box an opportunity to do that and come up with really awesome things that maybe some of us haven't considered.
[00:28:45.821] Kent Bye: Great. And is there anything else that's left unsaid that you'd like to say to the broader immersive community?
[00:28:53.010] Sonya Haskins: anything I'd like to say I would only like to say that thank you for doing the interview and all the interviews done and to you know just there's so many awesome people in this community I appreciate being interviewed it's very sweet and I like that and I enjoy that but I also really just love seeing all the people that I've seen here who you start to recognize the same faces and names and their personalities and You have friendships, and it's just a very special group. And I was telling some of the ladies outside a minute ago that people here, I think, need to really understand what a privilege it is to be where we are, the positions we have. It's a privilege and a responsibility because we are literally right now laying some very, very important groundwork for the future. And so, you know, I would leave it at that and just say that Anybody who's even listening to this right now as we're still growing this industry at such an important stage can just feel privileged to be here and see all these changes taking place. It's amazing.
[00:30:00.586] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, Sonia, it's been amazing to see up close how you've been helping to curate and cultivate both this community and this program this year from my own interactions of being a part of the program, but also seeing you interacting with all the people here. And 450 people is no small task of a program to put together and to be so intimately involved. And so, yeah, you've been able to really apply your community building and cultivation skills into this And it's really amazing to see everybody come together and, yeah, just to be tuned in to these hot topics. And like I said, you've done a great job of capturing the zeitgeist and riding these waves. And so, yeah, it's been great to be able to be here and to be able to interact with 5,000 people from the XR community that are here just to kind of capture these little stories from my little intersections of talking to folks. But, yeah, thanks again for all the work that you've done and for taking the time to share a little bit more of your story and your experiences here at AWE.
[00:30:56.178] Sonya Haskins: Thanks so much, Kent.
[00:30:58.819] Kent Bye: Thanks again for listening to this episode of the Voices of VR podcast. And if you enjoy the podcast, then please do spread the word, tell your friends, and consider becoming a member of the Patreon. This is a supported podcast, and so I do rely upon donations from people like yourself in order to continue to bring you this coverage. So you can become a member and donate today at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. Thanks for listening.
