I interviewed Une Eau La Nuit (Bodies Of Water) co-directors Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin and Caroline Laurin-Beaucage with producer Laurence Wells at Venice Immersive 2024. See more context in the rough transcript below.
Here is their artist statement:
This is a listener-supported podcast through the Voices of VR Patreon.
Music: Fatality
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.458] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR podcast. It's a podcast that looks at the structures and forms of immersive storytelling and the future of spatial computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. So continuing my series of looking at different immersive stories from Venice Immersive 2024, today's episode is with a 360 video called Bodies of Water, which is a really poetic and beautiful piece that is shot underwater and is this collaboration with a choreographer working with these professional dancers and to create kind of like these floating gravity-less types of choreography for people dancing underwater with this whole ambisonic audio soundtrack. And it was just completely compelling, awe-inspiring, and beautiful to watch. So that's it for coming on today's episode of Voices of VR podcast. So this interview with the team behind Bodies of Water happened on Monday, September 2nd, 2024. So with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:01:07.742] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: My name is Chélanie Beaudin-Quentin. I'm the director of Bodies of Water. The original title is Une eau la nuit. I produce VR and augmented reality projects. I also work on augmented reality operas and experiences about a child with ADHD. bodies of water. Well, we're here because we were selected for the Mostra and competition with our piece, so Caroline and I developed the project together.
[00:01:39.593] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: So, hi, my name is Caroline Laurin-Boucage, and I'm mainly choreographer originally but since 2017 I did a first architectural projection and then after I met Shalini and went into VR this new VR experience My work had worked previously with dance and technology, but necessarily immersive work. So I would say that the past seven years I've been experiencing more diving into immersive experiences and site-specific experiences also.
[00:02:21.744] Laurence Wells: My name is Laurence Ouez, I'm one of the producers for Bodies of Water and I've actually, this is my first piece of VR so I'm very much just starting in this area. I'm coming more from a background of traditional cinema, short films and dance as well but so when I was told about this project from the get-go it was a definite yes for me and I've learned so much throughout this project and Very glad to be here for a premiere in Deniz.
[00:02:52.947] Kent Bye: Great. And so I'm wondering if each of you could give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into working in this space.
[00:03:01.109] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Yeah, so I come from the world of visual arts and when I studied I thought I would do drawings because that's what I was doing and then I discovered video and I was really into video and started to work with bodies, with movement and then started to explore VR and little by little it became more important in my practice But I still work also on regular, let's say more traditional movies, dance film, and also film for the stage. So I also direct videos that goes with some pieces, dance pieces or theater pieces. But yeah, the extended reality, I would say, is taking more and more place in my practice.
[00:03:48.382] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: So for me, like I said, I'm a choreographer, so I have a dance background. I work as a performer for various dance companies. And then after that, I started creating my own work around 2010. I also collaborated with Martin Messier, which does media art, so flirting with technology. And then more and more my work got oriented by very specific scenographic sets, like on stage, outdoor. Like I work on small trampolines, so created a dance piece with the dancers on trampolines. So basically the environment is becoming part of how I think of a work and how I create a work. So just like stepping into virtual reality seems like a very natural to do that step because the fun thing about virtual reality, it has this fine line between live performance also but it's like bringing live performance out of the theater box and I think this is one of my main goal as a creator is bringing dance or bringing the sensitivity of the body or the experience of the body outside of the theatrical space.
[00:05:04.062] Laurence Wells: Yeah, well, I came to ARES, which is the production company, as an artist's way of life. I found myself being offered a place within the company. And as soon as I entered, they also talked to me about wanting to find someone to take care of the XR part of the company. And that really spoke to me because I do love very hybrid forms of production. creations and so one of the projects that was underway when I got to the company was bodies of water and so I right away actually I met Shalani and Caroline and four months later we were shooting the piece so it was a very fast forward and rapid trip with them immersion exactly
[00:05:54.025] Kent Bye: Great. And so when did virtual reality start to get on your radar and become a part of something that you wanted to get into? Is there a turning point? Or maybe you could just elaborate on what was the catalyst for you to start to get into the XR industry?
[00:06:09.028] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I guess I always was interested in experimenting new things and when I first explored with the VR XR projects, I discovered a community and I really found it was a really generous community actually where everybody wanted to share what they explored and there was something a bit different. There's not a way to do VR, there's many, many, many possibilities. So I kind of really wanted to delve into all those possibilities. And then I had like a first contract where I had to do a VR experience to show. It was more like a documentary to show the space of a veterinarian faculty of the university where they wanted to show some spaces that were not accessible for the public. So it was my first VR where I kind of really played with it in animation and a live-action documentary and then from there I was like okay the possibilities are wonderful and I really wanted to explore more and yeah so I think I went with like all the projects at the same time doing three projects in VR and AR and
[00:07:23.345] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: Yeah, I would say for me, it's the architectural projection that was created before the pandemic because it kind of started touring like during the pandemic because the dance producer were looking at ways to show dance in another way, but it was originally done before. And it's a journalist that saw the work and approached me with this scenario, with the scenario of bodies of water in Aulani, which very closely after I met Shalani and I thought this is a project for us. So we started working on that idea. So actually, the film is based on that original scenario that we worked on and developed together that was more diving into a choreographic experience than like a typical scenario. So this was my bridge towards VR. And then from that on, it seems like a world that is opening to me.
[00:08:26.943] Kent Bye: Can you elaborate a little bit more on what that catalyst was? Was it a video? Was it an idea or a photo? This dancing underwater, what was the first starting point?
[00:08:36.670] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: It was actually Oriane Meurier who works as a center of developing VR ideas. So she approached me, she saw my work and she approached me at the time and said, I have this idea, I want you to kind of like bring it to life. So she kind of gave us the key to bring this idea to life. So I felt like I needed, like, it was the good thing to be associating with Shalani because she had done VR and we had a very unique way to think about VR and how this experience could be. So it really became about a collaboration from that starting point.
[00:09:19.659] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I just wanted to add that the idea of Ariane Meurier was to work on the bodies that are expressed in a way unheard and how can they express in water differently and the possibilities that are being opened up by water actually.
[00:09:34.564] Kent Bye: Yeah, the thing I was going to ask is what do you think that she saw in your dance that she thought it would be a good fit to do what you were already doing but to translate it into underwater?
[00:09:44.608] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: It's because of the trampoline work, because my work often triggers the relationship to the body to gravity. So it's been part of my work. Like I had one piece called It and Fall, where it was always the body falling. Then after that, I did that architectural dance projection where I put the camera underneath the trampoline. And then we only had like the idea of the body coming at you and away from you. So this idea of kind of playing with time and like changing the gravity and the relationship with gravity, I think it's what she saw within my work. Okay.
[00:10:24.616] Kent Bye: I can definitely see that. Okay. Now I can imagine a little bit more of how this was developing. And so when you were presented with this idea, then what did you hear and what made you think that it would be something that you wanted to actually explore?
[00:10:39.588] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Well, I've been working with dancers and choreographers for a while. It was a dance piece, so I was really excited about it. And then to work in water, for me, the potential for VR, the sensitive potential of vr but also since for me like one important characteristics of vr is the way we experience space well then to be underwater the space become something else that we can really feel so even though it's not a sensitive experience outside the audio and visual so it's more traditional in that sense i feel that we can really feel in our body the water having an impact so for me yeah this idea was really exciting and I think many many many things emerge also while working in the pool so some of the the aspect we didn't anticipated for example the architecture of the pool we didn't really thought of it while we were doing this scenario but then when we were in the pool working with the dancers we were like okay there's a entire space that we can explore and we can explore the blind spots, explore where are we in relation with the surface and this relation for the viewer will impact differently their bodies. How do you put the body of the viewer in relation with the bodies of the dancers in that type of space where they come from higher, for example, or they are really close to you. And it was a way to explore differently the space, because the body that is jumping in the water, it comes from above. But in VR, we less experience that type of space, like the height. We can feel the space and the height, but then having some characters coming from there was also really interesting.
[00:12:28.832] Kent Bye: So it seems like a key part of developing this project would be to figure out how to get a VR camera underwater and then see what it looks like. And then once you're able to film something, then you can start to develop these ideas. And so it seems like that would be the first step where I would want to figure out what had to happen in order for you to actually film this underwater.
[00:12:49.269] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Well, you're absolutely right. For us, it was really important. Well, we started to develop the choreography and it was just before the pandemic.
[00:12:58.215] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: Yeah. During the pandemic, actually, we started in a public pool with the dancers and then just going underneath. And also one thing I wanted to add that Shalini was talking about the process, and I think it goes with that, is we decided to work with contemporary dancers. So it's not people who are trained to be in water. So it was a whole process to train them to be able to go underwater. And the more they train, the more they were becoming experts and were able to stay longer and to do new things. So this was like a training over certain years. Certain dancers started with us with the first trials and then Some of the teams changed over also. So it was a real back and forward between like trying underneath the pool. Then we were together in the water thinking of like the different section of the scenarios and then this back and forward for the whole time.
[00:14:02.085] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Yeah, and I feel like the first camera was actually our goggles. Having our goggles underwater is kind of having the headset. There's a similar feeling, I would say. So we started really looking at the choreography in space and then started to record with a cheaper camera. So we did a lot of recording. and we would take some part of that recording and look at it in the headset so we really could feel the choreography emerging also in space and in the headset and not yeah only with our own eyes there's a lot of characteristics and things to think of when you're filming underwater so like the if you're really far it's more blurry because of the density of the water so we also had to think of it while creating the choreography while also everybody it's like a typical question or problem or challenge like to think of the lighting in live action vr so where do we put the lights are they part of the environment or is it something that we want to take out so it was like already a reflection we had and we had to think of so we could play with Depending on where we are going to put the camera, the reflection on the water would kind of hide the outdoor environment and some part would be seen. So it's all the little details we worked with. And for us, it was really important to film it and to see it, to be able to understand where we can put the camera. So we had a really like... precise plan of like okay because it's simple it's really easy to do a precise plan we have lines we could like do a really architectural plan of okay the camera is gonna be on the third line on the sixth tile so we were really precise and then we could say okay The dancers are going to be 10 tiles further. So this is really the technical aspect. And then the other challenge was to find for a better camera after all the tests we made to find the case to go underwater for the camera reuse that is an Insta360 Pro 2. And we couldn't find and rent this case in Canada. So we had to buy it from a company called Mantis VR in New Zealand. That is, I think, mainly for divers. So yeah, and then we wanted to do other tests with the real equipment. So yeah, I think this is our process.
[00:16:36.337] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: I can just add that when we knew that we were shooting, we had to rehearse in the same pool. So it's a very site-specific work because, yes, we could rehearse in another pool, but then all the relationship to the environment was so precise to be able to shoot at 360 VR that we had to be in the pool.
[00:16:59.884] Kent Bye: And were you monitoring what was happening in real time? Or was there a delay? You had to take it, and then bring it out, and then you could watch it later?
[00:17:08.223] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I guess we wish we could have seen it but we knew we wouldn't be able to see it because our budget didn't allow to go into a rotoscopic work after like in the VFX because for to have a monitor on the water we cannot do it with Wi-Fi so we would have needed a wire to connect the monitor to the camera so for us it was another challenge and we instead decided to work in a close relationship with the dancers to have really a
[00:17:37.456] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: a relation of trust so that they would tell us okay this was not good but also maybe you can say more you have a close relationship with them too yeah i mean it was very interesting because it had to come from the inside so we had to have like a really good conversation about what is a good shot when do you say like it's really not a good shot so you you completely like I don't know, like you choked in the water. So, OK, this is not a good shot or it's just like you're not satisfied. It's very different. So we had to be in communication to be able to know that we had like, OK, three good takes to be able to go to the next one. So it was a back and forward, but very interesting experience. So everybody was kind of like responsible for what was happening and it was just not us conducting but it was like a teamwork and it was them knowing from the inside also.
[00:18:37.648] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: We still had some sweet spots from where we could see what was happening and then try to have an idea but it was never the idea of being underwater of course but we could have a feeling of it and then because we had to consider that to take out the camera from the case it takes 15 minutes minimum because we need to dry everything and then put back everything and make sure no water is coming in so we need to take our time we don't want to rush that step So I guess like after three or four hours of shooting, we would look at the material to see like, OK, everything is fine. There's no problem. We don't need to go back and film that scene. And it happened once that we just filmed again another shot.
[00:19:21.092] Kent Bye: Yeah, so it sounds like that there's a little bit of a delay for being able to actually see how it's playing out. But there's also the challenge of orchestrating and choreographing it and having a language and having direction and intentions for how to tell them what to do. maybe you could explain a little bit of how you were developing like a pattern language of movement when it comes to the different types of things that either looked good or could be used to build those contrasts or, you know, there's an experiential component for them for what feels good, but you know, what feels good for them may not look good. And so trying to figure out all the different, unique things you could do underwater that you can't do with other choreography. And yeah, what was that process like of developing this new form of underwater choreography?
[00:20:09.068] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: I would say for me it was about the relationship with gravity that it was like a line through. Because often when we see videos of dance underwater, it's like we go with that like light feeling that we're like elevating ourself or floating or very like graceful. But then I was thinking, OK, we're humans going into water. What if our goal was to feel the gravity and materiality that make us be lighter? So I was thinking, OK, so what about falling? What about crawling? What about trying to get underneath that water? And then after that, kind of like going into a shift of like what it is to just like let ourself like drop into the water. So we basically worked with those concepts and then with those concepts we articulated what was this kind of crawling. And it was also this idea of like everybody has their own relationship to gravity and then you see it even more underwater. so it was this idea to really like let everybody have their own differences but at the same time have a very specific vocabulary so everybody know what is their task when they're underneath so it's basically how we develop the material and then rehearse like i wanted to have a choreographic material that seemed very organic But at the same time, it's very specific. So yes, they work with their own physicality and their own weight in relationship to gravity, but it's very specific what they have to do underneath and how they crawl and how they squat or how they fight into the water. And then, yeah, you give specific details for everyone. But I would say that it was like a relationship of like calling it, defining it, talking about it, writing about it, talking with Shalini. And yeah, it's how it got developed and sketched out and got clearer and clearer. And I would say that like creating in a pool is very different than creating in a studio space where like usually live art is being made so this was kind of challenging because I had to have like very specific things to say like you know in a caucus right at the beginning because when everybody is in the pool it's like everybody goes and you know like when people like enjoy themselves in water they kind of go in their own bubble so it's really hard to get the attention back So I had to talk to the dancers like, you know, on the side of the pool. And then after that, when we would go on, then it was like everybody was doing their thing. And then you had to call it back because it could get the energy could be a little bit out there dispersed.
[00:23:03.140] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I would just add that we also work with divers that have a lot of experience working pool but other environment and in water and we kind of learn to tame with water with them like kind of learn to work with water so they give us tricks for example we learned that there's a specific way of clapping underwater actually so the others would understand and they would know like okay it's time to go out of the water and to come back and we also discovered that there is tools to write underwater and to take notes in the water so this is really like practical material that we kind of discovered while working with that team
[00:23:42.591] Kent Bye: You know, the Summer Olympics just happened in Paris. And so there was synchronized swimming is like probably the closest analog to what I can think of in terms of what you're doing here. But that's more of like people are outside of the water watching people in the water. And the VR allows you to actually be immersed underwater. Has there been anybody that's working with just 2D films of filming choreography? Or do you feel like, OK, so where are some other people that are doing that?
[00:24:08.717] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: I mean, I've never seen more traditional filming. It's been done in visual art, in dance. There's some film that exists. I could name all of them right now out of my mind. But in VR, I haven't seen any dance film that is done underwater.
[00:24:30.524] Kent Bye: yeah i haven't either and i guess the what i was thinking was like there's something different around it's like the audience is watching it underwater like it's been we haven't had an opportunity to do that so now there's new considerations where like the synchronized swimming is more like optimized for people outside of water but this is a totally different vibe where it's like more like you're in space and it's like this liminal space of like people floating in a womb like space there's a lot of these associations with water that get evoked with how our bodies move underwater and so yeah I guess as a director there's the orchestration of how people are spaced and like the trying to film at different angles and so maybe you could talk through like what were the different ways that you're working with the choreography to try to create something that's new for this type of underwater dance performance that kind of simulates an audience being underwater watching it.
[00:25:23.462] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Well, I think it is about this architectural space of the pool. While we were working in the pool and I was looking at everybody, I saw this slope that goes from the less profound into the more profound part of the pool, and I was like, what if the dancers just disappear in that space? So there's a slope that we could use that could make disappear the dancers and then we can use the magic of cinema to make them disappear longer and then to create a new narrative. So this is for me something that the medium allows. But also for me it was like rapidly actually we look at the pool and we're like, okay, the wall and the profound water is actually like a wall that we can use and transform and to become something else because of the gravity. So we really use that space so we can feel like the bodies are more going up that wall or down that wall but it gives a totally different impression. Yeah, I think this is more about the architectural aspects. And in 2D, regular cinema, you wouldn't feel the weight of the water. You wouldn't feel like... We feel the water moving around you, but also there's the sound aspect of the movie that really... With the sound aspect, we wanted to make the water be a character also. So it's kind of another dancer moving around you. So the impact of the movement of the water... resonate and touch the body, actually, of the user, I would say, in a sense. So we did an ambisonic sound, a specialized sound, that helps to create a more immersive, I think, a more immersive experience. When I discovered VR, coming from the visual world, I discovered the sound aspect also. And sound was always something that was kind of taking a second place in my work. And then it became crucial in the work because it is how you orient the way that people will look at your piece. So you can make them look somewhere else with just sound strategies. but also the vibration of the sound. And we want to work more with the sound and try to make the piece evolve and then to make the piece something that can be shared with other users so many users could look at the piece at the same time but have a sound that is a common sound for everybody, like a sound in a dome. Because when we were working with the song, we really felt that the vibration that the speakers can give also really gives other sensations, brings new sensations that are interesting too.
[00:28:12.325] Kent Bye: Did you have a chance to see Rose Bond's Earth to Come with the dome and the sound?
[00:28:16.048] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Yeah, I actually didn't expect that. And I was like, oh, this is what we want to do. It's really nice and interesting. And I feel like, yeah, the main critics we do to VR often, it's like, oh, it's a solo thing. it's something you experience on your own and you don't have like this shared experience so i think it's interesting to have this shared experience but i agree totally with the the solo aspect of yours because i think even if it's a solo experience i always see people talking about it and sharing their thoughts so i feel like it's like in a movie you kind of be in your bubble for a short period of time and then you want to share it so it kind of still stay collective experience
[00:28:58.593] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: I can add one little aspect is that also the multiplicity of dancers was an important aspect to develop the idea. Often it's only like a soloist, like in water, like one person. And the complexity of working in water is actually keeping your spatial relationship with each other because you kind of lose track of where you are, where is the bottom, the top, the side. So for us, it was one aspect that we really wanted to trigger was like bringing lots of people in that water. And I think the multiplicity of interaction within the water is also having an impact on the sound because, you know, one body crawling is not 15 body tapping the water altogether. So that was also like a way to play with the dimension of like the immersion and the visual but the sound aspect also.
[00:29:56.578] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I could add on the sound aspect because we couldn't actually record the real sound in the pool because for sanitary reasons we couldn't close the filter of the pool. The filter was really noisy so we recreated the sound with a Foley artist. So I'm really impressed by the fully artist's work because they need to embody the dancers and they are able to do it with so small things and it's really creative and imaginative and it was like we were doing a choreography over a choreography. So that person was embodying all the dancers and we had to dissect every movement. So we had the sound for, for example, the water moving, for example, away from the bodies. But then we have the sound of the impact and then the sound on the ground. And we had total liberty to imagine what can be that sound. We didn't want to stick to reality. And I think because our experience underwater is... Well, it's not our usual environment. We have all the possibilities and people can believe. I haven't heard people telling about our piece, is it real or not real sound? I don't know what's the feeling of the audience about it. But for us, like sometimes when the dancers are crawling, they kind of become crocodiles. So the skin can have another texture and the touch of the skin on the tile is also having a different sound. And we played with that.
[00:31:27.324] Kent Bye: It wasn't until I watched the video that you did your artist statement behind the scenes for the Venice Biennale YouTube channel that I had even realized that it wasn't actual sound. I think there was a bit of a musicality and a percussiveness to the sound that felt like the bodies moving through space was also like this audio-visual effect with the ambisonic audio. So there's a kind of full... audiovisual experience of it too that's very beautiful and poetic and yeah just really enchanting to see so it is a great orchestration I guess a question I have is around the kind of the rhythm and the pacing of the piece because there's scenes that kind of are unfolding at their own pace but there's also like audio to like create a flow or contrasts between people out of water in water and how did you start to take these individual scenes but also put them in together into an overall journey that you're taking us on?
[00:32:22.905] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I think it was like important for us to kind of create a narrative with the piece and we had like that idea of a bit like these humans that are not totally human invading a pool and then trying to tame with water so they pass through different emotions I would say kind of like trying with their body to go against gravity or trying to be able to breathe underwater or to extend their capacities in a way and the frustration that can come out of it and then being more and more comfortable in water and I accept the environment but we kind of played with that and wanted to create a narrative and it was well maybe I can let you answer about like Léonie that we choose Léonie to kind of guide us Léonie Bélanger that is one of the characters that kind of guide us through the piece
[00:33:15.189] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: Yeah, she's the one wearing the yellow suit. She was one of the ones who joined us almost from the scratch of the process. And I would say it's a very unconventional process for cinema, I would say. It was more like how we work in contemporary dance when we know the basics of where we're starting from, but then you start creating material, and then you see, oh, okay, how this material speaks to you. So, okay, you have this kind of... I would say, like, you bring out colors, different colors, different patterns, and then you see, like, oh, okay, this would be, like, a good introduction. This would feel, like, more like, oh, an ending, and then back and forwards between, like, Shalani kind of, like, putting that into... a script and dramaturgically and then me trying to like reveal what these characters could become but working with the ability of the dancers so our first ideas they weren't able to necessarily do them because they weren't trained to do them So we were able to bring the work forward because they were more trained, they had more capacities, and then some of them, like Leonie, who had a niece underwater, we were like, okay, we are able to put a kind of linear tread with her capacities and the way she was embodying also what we had in mind.
[00:34:44.286] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: And like in traditional cinema, there's also another writing that comes in when you're editing. So we kind of rewrite or get more precise on some aspect while editing. And we didn't at first thought that I'm not spoiling anything. I think it's a contemplative piece and there's no spoiling.
[00:35:04.511] Kent Bye: You have to see it to really fully get it. It's going to be, our words will not be able to do it justice.
[00:35:09.492] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Yeah, but there's some disappearance of the bodies through the piece, and this emerged while editing, and we were like, oh, this really works. Actually, it gives another sense of these lives inhabiting the pool, and we decided to work with that kind of disappearance that guide the user where they look, but also give a poetic aspect of who are these bodies in the water.
[00:35:34.028] Kent Bye: Yeah, I think any time that there's dance with using the body to tell a story, there's always going to be a certain amount of poetic interpretation in terms of that meaning. I don't know if I'd be able to put any language into what my interpretation of the story was. For me, it was more of a visual spectacle, audiovisual poetry, and real beautifully moving piece overall. But if you were to describe what the story is or what it's about, how would you describe what's happening in the piece?
[00:36:04.474] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I think I did it just before, a really descriptive way of seeing the piece. But for me, and I think we can, because of dance, and we can all have our own interpretation, even in the projects. I mean, the creator of the projects and the participants. But I was always interested in that idea that we are all bodies of water, and it is the title. So we're all made of water. But we cannot live underwater, but we come from water. So there was this idea of working with that idea, actually, and what is it to try to become more bodies of water in a body of water, in a sense.
[00:36:45.554] Kent Bye: Nice, yeah.
[00:36:46.914] Laurence Wells: I just wanted to say because from the production side, this is our first VR piece and coming from a more cinematic background, I think there was something interesting for us in the fact that this is a project that has multiple stories and that isn't so linear and has flexibility with its interpretations. So I think while it was a learning process throughout, it was also a learning process of letting go of this idea of a need for a specific beginning, middle, end. And it was more of a contemplative, experimental storyline that we thought was interesting to bring into this piece.
[00:37:29.153] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: So when Oriane approached us, there was something about revealing something of yourself. You know, when you change environment and mainly in water, there's something else that happens. And I think this is also part of the tread is that you see those people within this environment, but I'm not sure if you would see them normally in life. You wouldn't necessarily make the connection that this is these people. So I think there was this idea of when you're in this materiality and also like the way you move like some people are asking like is it slow motion but no it's not slow motion because moving in water just affect your temporality and also like this concentration aspect. that you need to have to be able to like Leonie is talking about in the little excerpt the YouTube kind of making of is like they needed to work on their capacity of relaxation and concentration and I think just that action also bring this poetic aspect that you can feel like within those body and within their relationship.
[00:38:42.677] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I would add a small thing. I think also the project is about emotions and that water allowed us to express some emotions. With water, we kind of... A lot of people like to be in water, like water, the feeling of it, but it's also something scary because we cannot breathe in water. So there's like this duality that is part of experiencing water in a way. And I felt like that in this poetic interpretation or in poetic... project the water allowed us to express many emotions that we can feel in our today's life and with all what's happening in the world or in our personal life for me it kind of expressed some emotion that some people can relate with this idea of like suffocating in some moments or being lighter and comfortable so there's all these dualities that are being expressed and I think this was a main part of the work too.
[00:39:40.990] Kent Bye: Yeah, it definitely feels like a healing balm by going into it. It's like this, yeah, just kind of put me into a bit of an altered state of awe and wonder of just watching everything move. And it was so hard to kind of predict what was going to happen next or how the physics of underwater was going to work in this kind of dance that I've never seen anything quite like it. So it was very unique. One thing I did want to ask around the dancers, because there's these feedback loops where there's a delay. If you're in a shower and you turn on the hot water, but it takes a few moments for it to get on, sometimes it can be hard to find that right temperature. And here they're doing the dance, but yet you can't look at the footage, and so they're not getting much feedback from you until later. And then maybe sometime later, even after that, they'll maybe watch some video of themselves if they can see it in VR, but then they have to think back to what they did. And so it's like this learning process for how they train themselves to kind of know how to do the movement and how the movement is reading for the camera, but also to be able to make these little adjustments. It feels like a type of experience where there's going to be some delays from each of these feedback moments where they can get some of that information and they have to really put it in their bodies and trust the process more than kind of overthinking it, I would imagine. So I don't know if that's something that you ran into, if that's something that's always happening in dance, or if there was some unique challenges for how to navigate that lack of real-time feedback and lack of knowing what it's going to look like until much later.
[00:41:10.663] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: Yeah, it was mainly this back and forward process, but also finding what is the routine for that work. So basically it's like, okay, we have this apnea training. Then, okay, talking with the dancer, how long do you need to train when we start a session? So basically we have like two hours of rehearsals because renting a pool is... like also a challenge so we had two hours straight so everybody had to be you know you were talking about the olympics like it wasn't like the olympics but there was this kind of like very regulated schedule where i had breaking down my two hours of rehearsal saying to the dancer, I'm going to be starting, everybody goes and do their apnea training. Then after that, I'm going to go with this team, then I'm going to rehearse that. So all my rehearsals were completely very much sketch. I'm going to give you some feedback. I was always underwater with Shalani looking, giving that feedback, and then also dealing with the coal, going to the toilet, trying to take the toilet break all at the same time. And then after that, often we would leave the pool and then take half an hour all together to give notes and comments. And everybody would go home and then we would meet the next day. And for me, it was very important that we were rehearsing every day, you know, for a week or like we couldn't spread out the rehearsals because your body needs to be training. So that training needs to happen in a week and not like every once in a while. So this was all thought of. The more we knew about the project, the more we were going into production, knowing those aspects that were needed to be able to make this happen. But at the beginning, we weren't as specific.
[00:43:00.789] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: I would just add also that for the training they would use goggles because of course it's hard for the eyes to open their eyes underwater but then they knew that at one point they would have to work without goggles and that they wouldn't see as clearly their partners or sometimes their eyes will be so burning that they would need to close their eyes and And so they need to really embody and know the space and know the choreography so they can work with the others in the pool. And this was also something we needed to consider.
[00:43:32.887] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: What can I add with that is, you know, we say a lot in dance that we work with like somatic. So it's like the capacity to be able to have a sense of the space and also a sense of what's happening in your own body at the same time while you're interacting. So it was almost training a seventh sense. within the team so they can interact with each other without having to see each other necessarily. So it was kind of like having enough training so they know that if they reach in a certain angle, they can grab each other's hand. And they know their bodies enough that they don't have to see all the time. Yeah.
[00:44:13.731] Kent Bye: It also reminds me of some contact improv type of things that are happening. Yeah.
[00:44:17.832] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: Yeah.
[00:44:18.132] Kent Bye: It's the first time I've seen contact improv underwater.
[00:44:21.487] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: Yeah, there's a little bit of a wink to contact improv within what was created.
[00:44:27.929] Kent Bye: There's a lot more freedom to do things you can't do in physical reality. So yeah, very beautiful and poetic. So yeah, I guess as we start to wrap up, I'd love to hear from each of you what you think the ultimate potential of virtual reality might be and what it might be able to enable.
[00:44:44.964] Laurence Wells: I mean, I think a lot. We see technology evolving like almost every day. I feel like since just like thinking of the Venice Immersive, I feel I've talked to people that were here at the festival in the first few years and they say that it's a complete different game from then to now. So with AI, I think we're opening a lot of possibilities to self-identification, to representation, to existential experiences as well. And I think with VR in general, we should aim to develop when it comes to accessibility, I think, immersive should be more than just some very expensive pieces of technology and it could be a way to engage with any sort of audiences and publics and I know just from a social context that You know, cinema and other forms of traditional art can be a challenging experience for some people, while VR may offer the opportunity of having a singular and personal individual experience, which could also be to explore. So yeah, that would pretty much be my answer, I think.
[00:46:08.126] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Nice answer. I don't know, I feel like it's been a while since we were there, but more and more the places like the Venice Immersive are giving a space so that the projects can reach the level of cinema that can be part of that world gained this recognition of quality, I would say, in the art world. So I feel like the possibilities are still infinite and they will, yeah, we still have so many things to explore that I can only focus on what I want to explore for the moment, I would say, and with bodies of water, I think we started something that we want to continue we want to explore other forms of experiencing the piece for example I was really curious of having maybe a moment where we would present the piece where people would have a tuba and the headset and they would feel like they are underwater because the headset is the goggle and I'm quite sure that breathing with a tuba would bring another sensoriality that would bring another immersion in the piece So for me, VR is something that is interdisciplinary, that we can cross so many or add layers. We can add so many layers to the experience with the onboarding also. I would say, yeah, I don't know. I'm just excited of exploring all these possibilities and saying, okay, this is one project and we can give a full experience by going in all these layers and adding all this, yeah, this quality.
[00:47:47.509] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: I'm gonna talk from my field of dance and I would say that for me it's a real gift and a real opportunity because now you can do choreography in different places in different setups and for me VR is opening the possibility to present the language of Dance, I want to say dance, but abstract physicality, poetic, sensitive experiences that we are bodies in spaces and different spaces living in an architecture. And for me, we are ready to experience different ways out of the black box. So it gives like a real opening and possibilities for creators like me in dance. And I think it's a great mariage to collaborate and think like interdisciplinary and rethink the hierarchy of cinema and live art and really getting into that new methods of working and new plasticities.
[00:48:59.169] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Just a small thing. I think for me, the idea of to work on the sensitive aspect is what VR really interests me. Well, I'm really interested in this aspect of the senses. And I think the more and more we can see different type of pieces where we have tactile or other type of experience. And I think this can give a more complete feeling of immersion. And for me, this is... the interdisciplinary part of it, but also maybe the future of VR. It's like feeling more and more immersive in some experience and living it differently. Not only through storytelling, yes, but also with other senses.
[00:49:40.701] Kent Bye: Great. Is there anything else that's left unsaid that you'd like to say to the broader immersive community? Any final thoughts?
[00:49:50.535] Laurence Wells: I haven't seen everything, of course, but I do hope that as much as I love innovating technologies, I do think that VR and immersive can also bring us back to simpler forms of performances and presentations and sets. And I think it allows us to tell stories differently. So I just hope we're going to remember what's important in the end.
[00:50:19.204] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Yeah, I would say go see VR, continue to be present in these spaces. I was really impressed to see that here in Venice Immersive, the public is there and that there's never slots available to see their work and there is really an interest, while sometimes I saw in the cinema industry a lack of interest for that type of narrative and I feel like Stay curious and you'll find the pieces that talk to you. There's so much diversity that there is work, I think, for everybody.
[00:50:51.705] Caroline Laurin-Beaucage: Yeah, I would say it's really nice to see that there's an ecology that is emerging and that is present. This is what I'm experiencing while I'm here and it's very nourishing artistically to be able to see that growth and recognition.
[00:51:09.275] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, I just wanted to thank each of you for joining me here on the podcast just because I feel like the piece, Bodies of Water, is a really beautiful, poetic piece. And, yeah, when I was watching it, just kind of filled with this awe and wonder and just captivated by, you know, what was going to happen next. But also just a meditation of bodies moving in a space in a way that I've never seen before. So that's kind of like a... pushing into new frontiers of how we're going to expand the dance practice into these different contexts, different mediums, and ways that you can also use the architectural space of a pool to then create these spatial relationships between the dancers in a way that becomes more about where they're positioned in that pool relative to each other to create a matrix of other shapes and possibilities. So yeah, it's just a really beautiful piece and really enjoyed watching it and really enjoyed also unpacking it all with you today. So thanks again for joining me here on the podcast. So thank you.
[00:52:07.098] Chélanie Beaudin-Quintin: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.
[00:52:11.055] Kent Bye: thanks again for listening to these episodes from Venice immersive 2024. And, uh, yeah, I am a crowdfunded independent journalist. And so if you enjoy this coverage and find it valuable, then please do consider joining my Patreon at patreon.com slash voices of VR. Thanks for listening.
