I interviewed Project_y: Working Title co-directors Yuzo Sugano, Taro Hirai, and Shingo Yoshimura at Venice Immersive 2024. See more context in the rough transcript below.
Here’s their artist’s statement:
This is a listener-supported podcast through the Voices of VR Patreon.
Music: Fatality
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.458] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR Podcast. It's a podcast that looks at the structures and forms of immersive storytelling and the future of spatial computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com. So we're continuing on my series of looking at different immersive stories from Venice Immersive 2024. In today's episode, we're going to be talking to the team behind Project Y Working Title. So this is a horror piece from Japan that is using 360 video in a way that is kind of like this interactive game elements as well as you are an investigator trying to track down some of these different ghost stories. And then as you are watching these ghost stories, then you catch different glimpses of people. the ghost in the background and then it kind of turns into more of a more deliberate like interactive adventure where you're trying to actually find more and more evidence of this ghost and then culminates at the end if you're able to unlock all these different things into like a final sequence so I really enjoyed playing through this piece I think the critique that I have in terms of like just the way that it's like probably a 60 to 90 minute piece to really comfortably go through and the slots were only like 50 60 minutes or so so there wasn't really enough time to really get through all of it comfortably but i did manage to make my way through the end of the project and there's certainly a lot of like bone chilling experiences throughout the course of this piece and Also did a interview through a translator, so they could understand my English pretty well, and then they were responding in Japanese. And so I have the full context of the Japanese here, just in case there's other additional information that may have not been translated here in real time. But I wanted to bring on the creators of the project just to share some of my own experiences to break it down a little bit. And yeah, it's kind of like structured in a way that allows you to kind of have this more immersive element of 360 video in a way that it can kind of translate that into more of a gamified aspect into the genre of horror. So I'm covering all that and more on today's episode of the Voices of VR podcast. So this interview with the team behind Project Y working title happened on Saturday, August 31st, 2024. So with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:02:19.284] Yuzo Sugano: My name is Yuzo Suga. I've been working as a game designer for almost 30 years. This project is part of a variety of experiments.
[00:02:40.303] Interpreter: My name is Yuzo Sugano. I've been making video games for over 30 years, but this time we're making a different kind of video games besides what I'm normally doing privately.
[00:02:53.956] Shingo Yoshimura: My name is Shingo Yoshimura. For this project, I'm a director of photography, but usually director of photography is not for the VR.
[00:03:17.595] Taro Hirai: My name is Keitaro Saito, also known as Hiraitaro. I use Hiraitaro as a pen name. I am a game development producer, but I was involved in Project Y as a talent casting and production support.
[00:03:37.409] Interpreter: My name is Shingo Yoshimura, but I'm using a different name. The different name is by Taro Hirai. I'm usually a game-making production and a film-making producer, but this time I was in charge of the casting.
[00:03:56.137] Kent Bye: Okay, so maybe each of you could talk a bit about your journey into working with virtual reality.
[00:04:03.304] Yuzo Sugano: I started off as an indie filmmaker as I was in college. That's how I started off. After college I started working in a game company and started using cameras and then I started working for other VR making. I thought not only making games but combining with the different various different kind of media or game engines together and he thought there's a possibility to make something new.
[00:05:12.307] Shingo Yoshimura: At first, I had the opportunity to make a VR video at work, but I thought it was interesting from there, so I studied it as a hobby regardless of work, and after that, I had the opportunity to make this Project Y.
[00:05:34.767] Interpreter: So I started making or studying about how to make games in the beginning. That's how I started. And then I started being interested in the VR world. And then he got an opportunity to make VR games.
[00:05:51.475] Taro Hirai: I originally had a PSVR and was interested in VR, but the real reason was that I got a call from the director, Yuzo. I wanted to be involved in VR content, and I wanted to be involved in content using real-time video. Originally, when I was a student, I was learning about video, so I was able to take advantage of that experience and be involved in various things.
[00:06:23.061] Interpreter: So I was studying the filmmaking in college, and then I met Yuzo, the director for Project Y, before making this game. And then I started thinking I could use the knowledge of how to make the filmmaking into the game world.
[00:06:43.676] Kent Bye: And so where did the idea for Project Y first come about?
[00:06:48.337] Yuzo Sugano: Originally, I liked Japanese horror movies. While doing various tests and experiments, I wanted to make what I felt like my own entertainment.
[00:06:59.454] Interpreter: So since I was growing up, I really liked the horror, Japanese horror stories. And I was interested in making to feel as if it's happening. I wanted to make a VR about how we can feel as if you are experiencing the horror.
[00:07:18.510] Yuzo Sugano: If you look at it, it's not there. If you combine the technology of the game engine, you can have such an experience.
[00:07:30.256] Interpreter: So for example, if you look around and you see something, something like ghost on the edge of your view, your vision, and then look around the other side, it's not there anymore. So that kind of a situation, I wanted to make it happen in the real 3D movies or VR filmmaking. I wanted to make it happen.
[00:07:55.174] Yuzo Sugano: It's important to move forward with your own play, in order to make it your own. That's why I chose the video game style. It's about clearing your own experience.
[00:08:07.816] Interpreter: So I decided to make this game to make it as if it's happening to you, expressing yourself by using this game engine and different kinds of technique.
[00:08:20.039] Kent Bye: And so maybe you could talk about what was the next step after you had the idea if you were like, you know, you shot it in 360 video, and then you had the game engine, and then you have to like, so just the steps to kind of like figure out the mechanic that it worked.
[00:08:37.066] Yuzo Sugano: First, I summarized the script. After that, I tried acting on my own. That was the first step.
[00:08:46.254] Interpreter: The first step was making or writing the script. And then we all gathered and took roles and played first.
[00:08:49.335] Yuzo Sugano: The location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the location, the
[00:09:11.707] Interpreter: And then next up we moved to the location and placing individual different items inside the room and then feel if it's working and that's how it started.
[00:09:25.797] Kent Bye: Most of the time when I watch a 360 video, there's nothing that I can do to interact with it. But it seems like there's interactive components that you're blending it more of a game with 360 video. And so what did you have to do to make sure that you could tie these two mediums together?
[00:09:48.072] Yuzo Sugano: I didn't want to think about complicated operations because I wanted to play as myself. So I thought I would just look around and proceed with the basics.
[00:09:59.597] Interpreter: So the one thing I emphasized the most was I want the player to feel as if it's happening to you. So I didn't want everything complicated, so I wanted to make it very simple. So I made it just to do the view, like a 360 vision first.
[00:10:23.622] Kent Bye: Yeah, it seemed like that there was editing it in a film editing software and then making sure that you could composite it in the film, but then also composite it in the game engine so that you could test to see if you're able to have these ghost characters be appearing and disappearing, but you're able to make it look like it matches the camera. So making sure that you could kind of blend these two realms together.
[00:10:53.642] Yuzo Sugano: A normal video is composed into a single image.
[00:11:01.851] Interpreter: Usually you can put one image composed into one scene. That's how you film usually.
[00:11:08.978] Yuzo Sugano: This game uses a game engine to compose different images in real time.
[00:11:18.103] Interpreter: But this game, Project Y, we used various different kind of images combined together instantly as you play using game engine. It's happening real time instantly.
[00:11:31.433] Kent Bye: Yeah. Yeah. It's a really powerful effect to see, especially there's the first part and the second part. But to be able to be looking around and then have the noise and the static and some indication became a little bit of a... genre of looking for certain objects in the space like in a point-and-click adventure game but in the context of kind of a horror show that's 360 video so it's a really interesting combination of different genres that you're blending like the gaming with point-and-click adventure with like the cinematic horror
[00:12:16.578] Yuzo Sugano: The structure is made in three different sentences.
[00:12:28.963] Interpreter: So as you play and the scene goes to the different scenes or the same scene you can see differently depends on where you are and see.
[00:12:39.206] Yuzo Sugano: A very important part that you mentioned was the noise. Okay, so the noise is a very important part of this game. And so the two noises, one is the movie noise and the other one is sound noise. So Shingo Yoshimura, director of the photography, made up this new idea to do both noise
[00:13:20.757] Kent Bye: And so you have the 360 video and then you have the ghost that is there and sometimes it disappears and it reappears and I'm just wondering if you when you were shooting it if you were just shooting everything with 360 video or if you shot it with 360 video and then with a regular two-dimensional camera?
[00:13:41.266] Shingo Yoshimura: Both are made with 2D video. So, we took using all 360 camera and combine them together. No 2D cameras.
[00:14:11.403] Kent Bye: Okay. And a lot of the structure of this piece is that there's a news reporter, and then he's getting emails that he's reading, and then going on assignment and recording interviews. And so maybe you could talk about using the computer interface to use that as a part of the interactive story structure to be able to drive the movie forward as you go through and This time, the main character is a free writer, and while doing various interviews, he follows the ghost story.
[00:15:05.942] Interpreter: So he's a freelance writer, first of all, in this game. And in this game, the main character is a freelance writer. And then he just starts following the ghost stories first. And that's how it started.
[00:15:23.357] Yuzo Sugano: The user will also experience the experience of the main character.
[00:15:31.334] Interpreter: So, in this game, the user, the player, follows the ghost stories, following the freelance writer's ghost story. So, it's following his story.
[00:15:43.024] Yuzo Sugano: The user knows the data of the main character's interviews. The user knows the data of the main character's interviews.
[00:16:00.162] Interpreter: So the game player is getting to know what's going on by looking at all these pieces, the hints that this player's writer is finding. So the game player will realize towards the end the pieces getting to all get together as a puzzle and solve all these mysteries.
[00:16:33.596] Kent Bye: Have you seen the film, It Follows?
[00:16:35.777] Interpreter: I've seen the movie, It Follows.
[00:16:38.138] Shingo Yoshimura: I love It Follows.
[00:16:39.879] Yuzo Sugano: But what I found most interesting was the interview with Vampire.
[00:16:47.738] Interpreter: I really like that. It's one of my favorites. But the most influenced film that he was influenced was Interview with Vampire by Tom Cruise.
[00:17:01.708] Yuzo Sugano: Paranormal activity.
[00:17:04.510] Interpreter: It's a paranormal activity.
[00:17:06.482] Kent Bye: Yeah, I've seen It Follows and it reminded me a lot of It Follows because the person that's coming in the background and then when they turn around and they look then they stop and so there's this anxiety that's produced by feeling like I'm in the same room. It felt like you took me into It Follows. It Follows was interesting.
[00:17:30.223] Yuzo Sugano: It keeps following me from strange places. That was scary. Maybe I was influenced by something. I've seen It Follows before and I like it.
[00:17:39.227] Interpreter: But as a result,
[00:18:00.521] Shingo Yoshimura: I really also love It Follows, but I realized, oh, this game kind of reminds me of It Follows after this movie is finished, completed. The movie that influenced me the most was... I don't have the English version, but it's a movie called Reiteki Boriseviki. It's a Japanese horror movie.
[00:18:36.654] Yuzo Sugano: Boriseviki.
[00:18:37.414] Shingo Yoshimura: It's hard to pronounce. Boriseviki. It's a satan word from Tarvela.
[00:18:46.286] Yuzo Sugano: I think when I film and the most influencing movie for me when I was filming was Satan Tango by Tarbera from Hungary.
[00:19:16.360] Interpreter: That's the movie that he got the most inspiration from.
[00:19:22.045] Yuzo Sugano: The thing that influenced me the most in the game was... ...when I was a kid on TV during the summer break... ...I played the role of a ghost.
[00:19:34.511] Interpreter: Okay, but story-wise, the most influential show was the TV show that I used to watch as I was growing up. It's a Japanese horror TV show. It's called Anata no Shiranai Sekai.
[00:19:49.086] Shingo Yoshimura: Okay. You don't know.
[00:19:52.489] Kent Bye: No, I don't know. Well, when I was watching this piece, there are these moments where I would catch a glimpse of the ghost and then it would send a shiver down my spine or I would just kind of like feel a rush, you know, that fear that is beyond what my mind can control, but more in my body. And I feel like with the 360 video in this setup, you were able to evoke these really strong emotions in me as I was watching it. And it was scary, thrilling, and exciting. And so I guess a question would be, like, if when you're watching your own piece, if you feel the same type of fear or terror or that you were able to use all the affordances of virtual reality and haptics and that it... if you're able to give yourself these kind of spine-tingling moments of fear?
[00:20:45.703] Yuzo Sugano: Yes, I definitely experience the goosebumps as I play this game. But furthermore, if I say, something strange happens. Like, when I go home,
[00:21:10.751] Interpreter: there's an Outlook door into the building, but it opens again automatically. It happens all the time.
[00:21:22.916] Kent Bye: And I'm curious to hear about your experience of playing Project Y, as well as your experience. If you feel those moments of fear, even though you were a part of making it, if you're experiencing it, if you feel the fear or goosebumps or spine tingles.
[00:21:42.429] Shingo Yoshimura: I was surprised to hear the voice of the ghost.
[00:21:52.416] Interpreter: Definitely, I felt that too. So, for example, I know what's going to happen in this game because I made it, but the voice of the ghost, every time I hear it, it gives me goosebumps.
[00:22:07.248] Yuzo Sugano: There was a bug during the test, and the voice that was supposed to not ring kept ringing. I was scared.
[00:22:13.273] Interpreter: I'm sorry. I was scared in two ways. This is scary by two different reasons.
[00:22:39.036] Shingo Yoshimura: Two reasons was the game was very scary and also bug was scary.
[00:22:56.838] Kent Bye: I'm curious to hear about your experience of playing it.
[00:23:00.902] Taro Hirai: It might be a little off topic, but what I was scared of was that there was a sign on the studio we rented for the shooting. I thought it was a place where a real, psychic phenomenon would occur. That was a little scary.
[00:23:22.429] Interpreter: So not from this game, but when we were filming, we rented this rental studio. And the paper says, well, ofuda, which is usually in Japan, put those ofuda, usually it's a paper, to calm those energies or spiritual reasons. And it was there in that rental room. And he thought that was, oh, some ghosts is living here. And that's why people put this paper. And that made him scared.
[00:23:52.589] Kent Bye: And there's some other times where I would see the ghost and it would be scary, but there's other things that were even more scary was when I would hear something but not see anything off screen and then I would turn and I wouldn't see anything but. Yeah, just the use of sound also in this piece was really powerful, especially in the ending sequences when I can't see anything, but I just hear movements. And yeah, I just I feel like you're able to build up that type of fear over time that it really was a really powerful experience by the end.
[00:24:28.962] Yuzo Sugano: The sound system is made in 3D in the game engine.
[00:24:37.766] Interpreter: The 3D sound was made in a 3D sound system, and that's used, combined in the game engine. That's how it's made of. So if you hear the sound from the different direction, the ghost is right there.
[00:24:59.141] Kent Bye: Yeah, and that's really scary.
[00:25:03.484] Yuzo Sugano: So we emphasized that part, the sound part, to make you feel it's happening to you.
[00:25:17.830] Kent Bye: Yeah, it worked really well.
[00:25:18.831] Interpreter: So yeah, what's next for Project Y?
[00:25:21.193] Kent Bye: So we really want
[00:25:41.178] Interpreter: all other people to play and enjoy this game. So right now it's only on the MetaQuest, but we are trying to expand it on iOS.
[00:25:51.381] Kent Bye: Oh, okay. So people can play it today already? Has it been launched publicly?
[00:26:01.305] Interpreter: So right now you can play on the MetaQuest. Also iOS, we are working on it right now. So soon to be available.
[00:26:09.218] Kent Bye: Okay. And what do you each think is the ultimate potential for virtual reality? Like, where do you think it's going in the future? Where do you think virtual reality is going in the future?
[00:26:20.167] Shingo Yoshimura: For example, in Project Y, I saw a ghost once, and I reproduced it. So in this Project Y, I use this content over the way to see the ghost is based on when I see the real ghost in my real time, real life. It's based on that story. I made it happen because we were able to make this video game because the computer system improved and that's why it was kind of made it easier to make it happen. I think it would be interesting if everyone in the world could do the same thing as me and exchange the finished VR.
[00:27:51.946] Interpreter: So in the future, because the technology improved, I hope everyone can do the same or making virtual reality world easily. And we can exchange the project that each of the people, each of them made and exchange it as if our individual spirits are exchanging.
[00:28:15.157] Taro Hirai: To be honest, I don't know what VR is going to be like, but the number of users is gradually increasing around the world. Especially the Project Y that we created this time, you can experience it as your own, and you can also experience it as a psychological experience. It's not a jump-scale, but a Japanese ghost that is standing there. That's what I want the world to experience. The number of VR users is increasing.
[00:29:14.378] Interpreter: So I think the user of the VR, the number of the people are increased little by little at this moment.
[00:29:23.809] Taro Hirai: I think it will definitely increase in the future, so if more and more users of Project Y that we created increase, I think it would be nice for the users around the world to experience the artificial psychic experience that is expressed there.
[00:29:47.873] Interpreter: So I believe keep growing the people who are using this type of VR, the number of people keep growing. So by playing this kind of game project, I really hope everyone enjoying this VR experiences.
[00:30:08.776] Yuzo Sugano: Since 20 years ago, I've always wanted to create games that make me feel scared.
[00:30:20.665] Interpreter: Over 20 years, I've been wanting to make video games that make you feel you're experiencing.
[00:30:29.272] Yuzo Sugano: At that time, I wanted to make video games, but I couldn't do it because I didn't have the technology.
[00:30:37.657] Interpreter: But I wanted to do that for 20 years, but I couldn't do it because technology wasn't there yet.
[00:30:43.821] Yuzo Sugano: Because of the technology improved and game engine was improved also, it made it happen. My dream came true.
[00:31:14.136] Interpreter: I believe the improvement will never stop. The development will never stop. So I believe we can make better games or better and better games more and more.
[00:31:30.187] Yuzo Sugano: So it's going to make it possible for creators to create images or movies or games that you've never seen before.
[00:31:55.737] Interpreter: I believe you're going to experience the fun experiences by using VR.
[00:32:08.402] Kent Bye: Is there any final thoughts that you'd like to share to the broader immersive community of XR creators?
[00:32:17.707] Yuzo Sugano: I believe everyone who's in the VR industry are all friends, so we like to exchange information. To share the products with each other. Exchange opinions.
[00:32:48.422] Interpreter: That's what we want to do.
[00:33:01.206] Shingo Yoshimura: It's the same thing as what Sugano-san said about sharing what we've done together. But apart from that, I'd like to see a work that was made secretly without telling anyone. I think it was made by someone else.
[00:33:27.867] Interpreter: Yeah, so like Yuzu said, we really believe that we like to share all the information with each other, but also what I want to do is like to see individual private projects that they are making, and we would like to exchange that too.
[00:33:48.358] Kent Bye: Okay, so if anybody wants to see your project, they can send them their project, right?
[00:33:54.480] Interpreter: If you have a project that you want to show us, we can send it to you.
[00:34:00.165] Taro Hirai: Please do.
[00:34:01.507] Interpreter: Yes, please.
[00:34:02.007] Taro Hirai: I think I'll add something to what the two of you said at the end. I'm doing a job related to games, and games that are made in a normal way are becoming more and more classic. I feel like there's a lot of theory behind it, but I think VR can be expressed in various ways if you come up with ideas and techniques. So I'd like to try other creators' games, and I'd like them to share information such as that there might be a video, not a game.
[00:34:45.638] Interpreter: Right. The games in general, it's pretty much like there's a regular style of games. It's like a standard style. But for the VR, there are so many possibilities. It just depends on the different techniques and also new ideas, who come up with the new ideas. So we like to exchange all those informations.
[00:35:10.737] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, I had a lot of fun playing through the Project Y. Like I said, it feels like it's a really great combination of, well, I'll start with that, in that it feels like a real innovative combination of 360 video with video game mechanics with the horror genre and the point-and-click adventure. And yeah, thank you so much for joining me here on the podcast to help share a little bit more information about your project Y. Thank you.
[00:35:44.172] Yuzo Sugano: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
[00:35:47.335] Interpreter: So they said if you have more questions after playing this game over and over again, please email them. So they will return you all those questions and the answers.
[00:36:01.926] Kent Bye: OK, awesome. Thank you. Thanks again for listening to these episodes from Venice Immersive 2024. And yeah, I am a crowdfunded independent journalist. And so if you enjoy this coverage and find it valuable, then please do consider joining my Patreon at patreon.com slash voices of VR. Thanks for listening.
