Curator Ana Brzezińska announced the Tribeca Immersive 2024 line-up on May 23, 2024 mentioning that “this year we are not presenting any VR/AR experiences,” but rather that they’re pivoting this year to featuring eight immersive art pieces by six different artists being shown at Mērcer Labs: Museum of Art and Technology, which first opened to the New York City public on January 4th, 2024. Tribeca Immersive opens on June 6th and runs for 12 days until June 17th, and you can get tickets to see it here.
Some immersive creators discovered this surprising news by receiving a refund to their submission, which said “As the immersive landscape evolves, our category is taking new shape to explore formats outside of VR/AR this year and our decision is not a reflection of the quality of your work… Because our change in format was a recent shift and changed our consideration of the works, we will be refunding you your submission fee.”
Tribeca Immersive will be taking over five of the rooms at Mērcer Labs that includes “a two-story high 5-wall LED immersive hall; a 4DSOUND installation space; and two infinity rooms, including one equipped with volumetric technology that makes you feel like you’re watching a space opera.”
This space opera location is called the Dragon Room, which is described by Mērcer Labs on their Instagram page in the following way, “Volumetric lighting allows visitors to see voxels (volumetric pixels) of light in space. The light source is modeled as a transparent object in a container of volume. The resulting effect is of passing through a hologram. The use of mirrors and advanced technology, unlock the power of three-dimensional visualization to create a cascade of luminescent particles that appear suspended in infinite space. The individual light particles in an architectural format offer virtually endless opportunities for formal reinvention. The volumetric installation powered by @ledpulse, Dragon02 technology, features a unique configuration exclusive to Mercer Labs. This remarkable installation, the largest of its kind, and incorporates more than half a million LED neurons-microchips, meticulously synchronized to create an unparalleled visual experience.”
I had a chance to sit down with Brzezińska last week to get a bit more context on this pivot as well as on the eight immersive art pieces in the selection that will be spread across three different daily selections repeating four times over the 12-day run. Also be sure to check out her Substack post titled “In The Stillness of Synthetic Light*. Note on Tribeca Immersive 2024” to get even more context for her intentions and motivations for this year’s selection where she says, “I believe that before we start seeking hope — which I expect to become a major theme in many upcoming art events — we need space for reflection and respite that allows for a radical suspension of judgment.”
I unfortunately won’t be able to travel to Tribeca to check it out myself due to a family medical situation that’s limiting my travel this year, but I’m looking forward to hearing back from folks in the community to hear how it all comes together. There will not be a formal Storyscapes competition this year, and so I will also be interested to see how the Tribeca Immersive selection continues to evolve over time and whether this represents a permanent shift away from immersive stories towards immersive art, or if we’ll see an the inclusion of both forms in the future.
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Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.458] Kent Bye: Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR podcast. It's a podcast that looks at the structures and forms of immersive storytelling and the future of spatial computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. So in today's episode, I'm featuring the curator of Tribeca Immersive, Anna Brzezinska, to explain a little bit more about her decision to take Tribeca Immersive in a completely different direction. Each year during the Tribeca Film Festival at Spring Studios, there's been a selection of both virtual and augmented reality, mixed reality stories, and a whole competition of storiescapes in order to honor the best immersive story. This year, there's no storiescapes competition. There's not even any virtual augmented reality selections. And all the different eight curated pieces are going to be in this big, massive immersive art installation place. So that's a new location called Mercer Labs, the Museum of Art and Technology. And the way that Anna describes it, she said there's a two-story high, five-wall LED immersive hall, a 4D immersive sound installation space, two infinity rooms, and a dragon room that's equipped with some LED volumetric technology that she says that makes you feel like you're walking in a space opera. So she's curated eight different pieces that are spread across three different days, and there are six different artists. And it's much more about immersive art than it is about the immersive storytelling with VR and AR. So I wanted to get a little bit more context as to what was behind this decision because it was kind of a surprise to a lot of the community. She actually refunded all of the people who had submitted a VRAR immersive story to Tribeca Immersive just because they decided to take this year's selection in a completely different direction. And it was sort of last minute relative to the normal cycle of the full year of putting together a festival event. It wasn't until like January 4th, 2024, when Mercer Labs, the Museum of Art and Technology, even opened up for early previews. And Anna had a chance to see it and she just was really inspired. And so she digs into a little bit more about what her artistic and curatorial intention was for this year's selection, as well as how she went about selecting the artists and curating the show and the implications of these new spaces that, you know, there's many different immersive art places that have been out there like Team Lab, Meow Wolf, The Sphere that's opened up in Vegas. Cosm is going to be opening up in June. There's Super Blue Miami, which I had a chance to go to during Filmgate International. There's The One Dome in San Francisco that was open for a few years, showing a lot of immersive art. There's Carriere de Lumiere. There's Projection Mac Van Gogh pieces that have been out there for a while. And now Mercer Labs, Museum of Art and Technology, is the latest place where they're going to be curating five different rooms with eight different pieces that are rotating over the course of 12 different days. So that's what we're coming on today's episode of the Voices of VR podcast. So this interview with Anna happened on Thursday, May 23rd, 2023. So with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:03:01.607] Ana Brzezinska: My name is Anna Brzezinska. I am the Immersive Curator at Tribeca Festival. It's my third edition as the Festival Curator. And then before I joined Tribeca, I was head of studio at Kaleidoscope, the French and American immersive startup behind a number of very different community projects, but also industry meetings, as well as co-productions of virtual realities.
[00:03:29.022] Kent Bye: Great. Maybe give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into this space.
[00:03:33.823] Ana Brzezinska: Sure. So before I decided to dedicate my entire professional time and attention to virtual and augmented reality, or I would say spatial and interactive media, I was trained as a theater director. That was my primary I would say professional staff. I have a background in art history and philosophy. And then I worked for over 10 years for various broadcasters and television companies. I was also involved in documentary filmmaking for a while. But then I pivoted to virtual reality quite rapidly when I discovered the possibilities of this new medium.
[00:04:14.861] Kent Bye: Right. Just a quick follow-up. You mentioned philosophy. Is there any specific branch of philosophy or things that you were digging into?
[00:04:20.948] Ana Brzezinska: No, I was actually very, very young when I started studying philosophy. And it was something that at the time I found, it felt almost like a punishment to me because I wanted to go to an art school, but I was actually accepted into philosophy faculty in Warsaw and Poland back then. Although I just spent two years and then I moved to art history, which is still my big passion. It was probably one of the most important and forwarded times for me that shaped the way I think about many films today. But it was a very mathematically oriented faculty. So it was quite particular in that way.
[00:05:00.859] Kent Bye: Okay. Well, that sort of art history of looking back and looking how these different trends have emerged, now you're in a position as a curator at Tribeca Immersive to start to almost proactively help shape where things are moving in the future, both reflecting on what's happening in the culture, but also from your decisions to highlight different things that you find are interesting that's happening within this overall evolution of moving into more and more immersive types of media. And so there's a bit of a pivot that's happening this year where there's actually no VR or AR pieces that are part of the official selection and you're moving into a new venue and have a different setup. And so maybe you could just give a bit more context as to, first of all, what the exhibition is going to be like this year and what was some of the pivot points behind this shift in this year's curation as contrasted to previous years.
[00:05:52.573] Ana Brzezinska: I think there are at least three different ways in which we could approach this, but I want to start with the one that might be most valuable for our audiences and for industry members and our friends who are going to come to the festival, which is about how the new format of the show looks like. How did we... put it together, how the process looks like, what they can expect when they come to see it. And then I think, you know, there's this whole background story for me about what does it mean? Like, how does it change the way we think about immersive media or immersive art or immersive storytelling? How does that new discipline evolve, not only on I would say on the side of technology and what we call the market, but mainly on our understanding of what is it that we really expect from this art discipline to be and how do we really talk about it? We had conversations about the language that we're using to not only convey what we're trying to build, but also to memorize what has already been created before. And this is a whole separate topic that both of us are very passionate about. But making this particular exhibition for Tribeca has made me also rethink all these questions. It is also interesting to what extent our history is being a great ally in that process because you're looking for references and you're looking for examples and you're looking for models that you may adapt to what you're trying to create yourself and to how you're trying to understand what the artists in our fields are mostly interested in, passionate about, and what is it that their art is telling us about today. So that's a very long prelude to actually saying that for those who have not had a chance yet to take a look at our new program the main difference is that we have partnered with a new space a state-of-the-art digital band called mercer labs that opened in new york city beginning of this year so they are sharing very early in their adventure of working with guest curators and guest institutions that they welcome in their magnificent space. And this is really not an overstatement. What I want to say is that the architecture of that building, and it's a three-story building where you can spend at least a couple of hours, if not more, is really designed in a way where every single room is a bespoke exhibition space. And then that space is equipped with a very particular type of technology. So you will have obviously very powerful, very interesting in terms of shape and positioning and dimension, very powerful screens where we can present different types of video works. But you also have rooms like the 4D sound room where you can only install spatial sonic experiences. But the quality of that experience is absolutely incomparable to what we're used to when it comes to the way we experience sound in everyday life. you do really have a sensation as if you were interacting with a sonic sculpture. You really feel the presence, the physical presence of different objects or different phenomenons that are happening in a certain proximity to your body and that room which is very interesting because you don't really see anything there it's completely dark but you can sit on the floor or you can just stand in space or you can lie down and the sound is really building this physical space this physical presence around you and then you have rooms that we would normally call infinity rooms and infinity rooms are made with various types of screening technologies, different types of displays, and obviously mirrors that are being put on all the surfaces around you, creating that very powerful illusion where you cannot really recognize anymore where the space ends and where does it begin. So the feeling of immersion is built in a different way. but it's very, very powerful. And of course, this is just a very short description of certain spaces, exhibition spaces at Mercer Labs. There's, of course, your main space, which is the two-story high 5-LED wall ballroom, I would say. I think this is the right word to describe it. It's really very spectacular. And it's equipped with the Holoplot sound system, which is the same system that is used in the sphere. So the way you can actually hear music and sound and all the sonic layers is quite impressive. We're working only in five exhibition rooms out of multiple rooms that are in Mercer Labs. And in these five rooms, we're presenting eight works made by six artists. So these are the numbers. But what the experience will look like from an audience perspective is that you buy a ticket. Let's say you come on June 6. This is the day when we open. And then you will be able to see a set of five works that are curated together in what we might call a thematic show or a thematic chapter. And then if you come on the next day, there will be certain works that will rotate. So you will have a different experience because you're going to see different artworks in different spaces. Some of the works will remain unchanged, but some of the works will rotate. And the works that we're rotating are technically determining the angle of the entire experience. So we have three shows that will be open from, I believe, 11 a.m., until 10 p.m. every day throughout the entire festival period. And every 24 hours, we're going to have a different show. So it's obviously an opportunity for everyone to see the full lineup because there are no slots. There's the problem of access and accessibility has been significantly, I would say probably it's removed totally because the space can accommodate hundreds of people, if not thousands of people every day. And so I think in that way, we're going to be able to present our works and the works of the artists that we work with to a much larger audience and probably an audience that is different from the one that we used to welcome at Tribeca when we were solely depending on virtual reality technology.
[00:12:53.875] Kent Bye: Okay. Yeah. And so before we start to dive into each of the individual pieces, I wanted to just get a bit more context as to the space and also like there's a number of things like the sphere. Also, Cosm is starting to do more of these half-domed type of experiences. There's domed experiences. And so what was the catalyst for you or a turning point where you decided that the main focus of your selection was going to be in this new format that, you know, maybe you could just give me a sense of like, you know, what's the relative resolution that may be different than just like watching a video that has something that maybe not be completely as encompassing as like a half dome, but is more of like a Van Gogh type of experience where You have a big room with these giant LED walls. Usually that's like projection map. And so this is something that has LED walls. And so, yeah, just give me a sense of the underlying architecture of this space and what were some of the things that was a catalyst for you to move in this direction?
[00:13:50.270] Ana Brzezinska: Well, I think the catalyst to move into this direction was that we suddenly discovered the opening of the Mercer Labs in New York City. And there was no other space like this either in New York City, but I honestly don't really think there are many places like that in the world at all. I think what should be emphasized, although I cannot speak for technical details, is that The quality of the technology and of the visual and sonic experience at Mercer Labs is so high. It's incomparable to, I would say, more traditional spaces when you would just watch video projections on walls. This is really a quality that I would say, you know, people fortunate enough to visit the T-Lab Museum who have been to the sphere or who had a chance to visit the facility that Kazem has been using. before that upcoming launch in the end of June. I think we're talking about this quality and these kind of standards rather than anything else. And I have to say that I am really so impressed with the quality of the technical approach of the team. And I think what is also really important to emphasize is that This technology is so thoughtfully incorporated into a physical architecture. It's not a warehouse. It's the building that was built and conceived thoughtfully for this absolutely glamorous technological experience, digital experience. And all the technologies and technology providers that Wurster Labs are working with are some of the most famous startups and companies in the world. I've mentioned Holoplot, but there's LED Pulse, there's Monom. These are absolutely best of the best in class technology experts. with an extensive experience also in creating bespoke experiences and works. I don't want to say content, but this is probably the word that defines, you know, various types of digital experiences and projects. So it's just important to understand that this is a very unique place and it's nothing like I've ever seen before. And also, obviously, the logical consequence of that fact is that because there was no place like that before, we couldn't have really had an exhibition like this. That exhibition is the way it is because of the environment for which it was designed. Because all these works are made for Mercer Labs. They're not something that we just select and then someone will press play and the video will be projected on the wall. This is all bespoke creation. So some of these works, I would say, for example, we are working with a team that has adapted a work for Mercer Labs for the venue in which we work. But the piece has been presented before. I'm thinking about Frame Rate by ScanLab Projects. But the version that is going to be presented this year at Trebinga is significantly different from all the versions that at least I have seen of frame rate at different events. It's a fully immersive, gigantic installation, very dynamically edited with a lot of added new scenes. And I think that I personally have been following ScanLab projects for many years and I'm a true admirer of the craftsmanship and the attention to detail that this studio is famous for. And I think that potentially this is the first time when they present their work in a space that can really do justice to the quality of the work that they've been doing for so many years. Because if you watch it on a small screen or even on a larger screen, but it's still just video projection or a monitor, I mean, you cannot really appreciate the depth and the detail and the quality of the imagery that they built. And of course, there's a whole sonic layer to it, which is orchestrating the entire user journey, which is just tremendously important. And also the quality of that sound and that space is also important for that final user experience. I think for me, at least, you know, I can see that piece bloom because I understand now everything that has been hidden in that work and that this presentation will hopefully reveal to our audiences because that work is so complex and so rich in various topics and various emotions. But also, obviously, there are words that have not been seen before anywhere because they were made specifically for the festival. And we have a brand new, stunning, massive installation by Manuel Acton. who made a piece that is combining dance with artificial intelligence and with imagery that is a beauty that I have not seen for a long, long time. I was very fortunate because I spoke with Memo when he was preparing for the Venice Biennale this year. He was preparing a work for a collector and that work is on view since April in Bennett's. But I would say Memo discussed that work with me and we got to a place where he took inspiration from that single screen installation and It came out with a concept of a five-wall, much more dynamic, multi-dancer spectacle, which is a tremendously beautiful and soothing experience, morphing experience, where we're watching a shape that is... starting off as a human being, but then it's actually becoming various life forms in a way that is extremely subtle, that is very sophisticated visually, but is kind of driven by that need to communicate to us that we are so tremendously, so powerfully interconnected with every single thing that is. in our immediate surroundings with every single aspect of the physical world that we are receiving and communicating with through our bodies and through our neural systems. And I think the metaphor that Manuel is creating to contemplate that phenomenon together is an absolutely unique beauty. And I'm very proud that we're going to be able to present this work as the first festival and the first event in the world. And I hope it will get seen by many other audiences in different countries. And I hope that this work and all the other works will travel after the festival.
[00:20:54.298] Kent Bye: So just a clarifying question, just because it sounds like I'm getting that the Mercer Labs is such a unique location that there isn't really much precedent of a space like this around the world, which presents both a new opportunity, but also a challenge, both because there's a lot of artists who have to create or something that they may not be able to actually get to see what it actually looks like until they're on site and get to preview. And also you as a curator, you have to be working with these different artists who are creating something for a format that you have to also preview what they're doing. And so just to clarify the architecture of the space, there's a five wall LED immersive wall, which I take to be like the four sides and also the ceiling. Is that correct? That it's like basically a cube? Oh, it's the floor. Okay. So it's the floor and then the four walls. And then so, you know, we can take like an immersive VR experience and then you can project it within the context of either like a bull dome experience or half dome and then tilt it. And so I've seen these adaptations for people using something like VR, but having it be rendered out on a different format and this sounds potentially similar but somewhat different because it's down below rather than up above and so maybe you could just talk about like how did you sort of navigate this challenge of working with such a unique space and working with artists who had to adapt their work and then also how to curate and decide what was going to fit within this space
[00:22:18.891] Ana Brzezinska: That is a very, very good question, and it's very difficult to answer it in a way where I can be really brief about it. But let's maybe start with saying that, well, of course, this is the first time ever when we're doing something like this. But by saying we, I also mean I personally, and maybe please correct me if I'm wrong, I mean... I think we never really had a group exhibition of curated immersive works because we obviously did have a large number of very different digital exhibitions where you might have different digital works or mixed media, multimedia creation. But because of what you mentioned about the specificity of that venue, of that space, I think that there were no shows like that before because simply there was no possibility to even think about this. And I think that when I first got into Mercer Labs, and that was in February, so it was something that happened quite rapidly. I had no methodology. There was no blueprint. There were no guidelines. How do you program for a space like that? Or how do you try to get works made for a space like that? And perhaps if the circumstances were different, we would have more time on that. we would be in a slightly different environment, you know, that eventually that show would look different. But my core will was to follow something that was my curatorial vision for this year, you know, long before we got into working with Mercer Labs and my contract with Tribeca is full-time. So I think about the exhibition we're going to introduce the entire year. It's not like I start programming three months before our submissions close or something like this. I do think about that experience every day of the year and because that year is quite special in the bad meaning of the word. My goal, you know, was always to create an experience or an exhibition that will offer people a little bit of relief. I don't want to use words that are too big because, you know, I don't want to say that this is a show about hope because it's not, but it's really, you know, I think I just don't want to punish people anymore. It's been hard enough. And how do you approach curating a show where you start with that motivation? And then the opportunity came. And so I thought, okay, so I started with just thinking about something that I think we all understand very well, all of us who work in immersive, but we tend to forget about it in the everyday busyness of what we do is that immersive art is not about what it says, it's about how it makes you feel. And at the end of the day, that's why it's also so difficult to explain to people who are not in our field, because they will say like, so what is this experience about? And at the end of the day, it's not really what it is about. It's actually what it leaves you with. What is it that it offers you when you're in that process? And what is the memory that you keep once it's gone? And in a way, I just wanted for us to work with artists that will be able to speak about many things that we hold dear and that are important for us, but in a way where they don't add to the overall pain. of the everyday reality, you know, and then we can list things, you know, we can list the wars that are happening, we can list a climate crisis, we can list the fact that we're very lost, you know, both as societies, as individuals, and we're very lonely and the permanent anxiety that reality is causing us. So I was thinking about when I went to Mercer Labs for the first time, and I thought, what is the way in which I could maybe translate some of these thoughts into that space? And I thought, well, it's a shelter. That space is a safe space. You come into that space. for a moment of relief and for a moment where through the contemplation of beauty, you can actually get a little bit of distance to the things that are just too overwhelming to face, you know, every day and every time. So that was the motivation behind the show. And then when I thought about who are the people that I know that are in a way focused on these themes, similarly to how I think about them, and obviously who have also the capacity and the talents and the skill to be able to face that kind of event. Because it's not easy to work in a space like that. It's a very difficult space because you not only have to have a skill set that goes beyond everything I can list here, But you have to have an intuition and an understanding of working in a space that is almost a place that feels like an opera house. It's really very, very demanding. And I think I'm just very lucky because every single artist that we work with understands that immediately. And they have created works that were not there the day when we started that conversation, except for Scanlan. But even ScanLab, their work has evolved in a way where it made me rediscover the whys and the hows of their extraordinary practice. And when I see this show come together, I'm really surprised how close it is to everything I imagined the day when we started. and i think it's only showing to me that the creators from our community and the artists who have been working relentlessly every day for the past i don't know 10 years or so on proving that they have a point that this is an actual field that should be respected as an art discipline and finally now For me, this is the proof. If that show opens and it looks like I know today it will, for me, this is the proof that we have the honor and the privilege of working with the artists of the new generation, of a new era. And we finally can share that with the world saying like, look, this is what we've been talking all the time. And that was the dream behind that show. And I hope that even if it happens in 10% to be a little bit like what I imagined, then yeah, I think I will be just very, very happy and grateful.
[00:29:21.536] Kent Bye: Yeah, that definitely provides a lot more context for the pivot and the shift that this year's exhibition of these eight different pieces that you're featuring across six different artists. And so maybe it's good to dive into each of the different pieces. We've talked about a couple of them briefly already, but maybe you could just kind of walk through the eight different pieces that are going to be featured across these three different sections.
[00:29:43.396] Ana Brzezinska: Yes. Well, I just want to add one more thing because very egocentrically, I focused on my own process. But what I need to say is that at the end of the day, the decision to make that new format the way people will see it in two weeks' time, is a decision that was made by the Tribeca Festival and by the leadership of Tribeca that was motivated with a very thoughtful and careful observation of the changes that we're seeing in the creative industries in the market that is somewhere in between technology and art and entertainment. And I think the biggest applause should go to the people that actually were courageous to make that decision because it comes at the right time and I know it and I think many, many industry members will know it. But it takes really a lot to make such a radical change so quickly. And I think this is only showing that the commitment to innovation is something that is a real part of the Tribeca DNA. It's not just something that is part of the program and then it's there and we've always done it that way. No, it's really showing that there is a true interest in what is really happening in that space. What is the trend or what is the need of an audience that You know, you have to educate your audience, right? And all these new immersive venues, they've been educating people that this is part of our culture right now. And I think the decision that Tribeca made to say we're going to make our official selection in that new format is saying this is our response to how reality has changed and we're being mindful of it. This is how we're trying to address it. So it's a strategic decision. And it's obviously a decision that is happening far beyond my pay grade, but what I feel very happy about and I'm very grateful that I've been part of that process is that I see a way how this makes sense from an artistic perspective and from the perspective of our community and the creators that have been waiting for that moment of that elevation in a way for many, many years.
[00:31:58.875] Kent Bye: Right. And maybe it's worth going through the six artists and the eight different pieces and I'll leave it to you where you want to begin.
[00:32:07.319] Ana Brzezinska: Yes. So I want to start with the works that are presented in the main hall, which is the main immersive space, the larger space, which is the space also where the works will change every day. In that main space, we have three incredible projects. We have, as I already mentioned, a new reimagined adaptation of Scanlabs Framerate that is now titled Framerate Rhythms Around Us. We have Memo Acton's Embodied Simulation, which is a brand new 20 minute long, absolutely beautiful generated installation that is blending dance, choreography, neuroscience, and visuals that are so beautiful that it's very hard to find the right words to describe it. And we have a work that is coming more from, I would say, the cinematic end, which is a cinematic installation made by Liam Young, the director of Planet City that many of our listeners already know very well. And that work is called The Great Endeavor. It's a new piece that is a continuation in a certain way of the body of work that Liam has made with Planet City. This work is focusing on a speculative effort that he compares to the modern day moon landing, where we need to create the infrastructure and the global efforts to remove the carbon that is already out there in the air from the atmosphere and from our planet. The way he's approaching this, and this is something extremely thoughtful that I truly find unique in William's work, is that he's not making a documentary about machines that are going to be put on the desert or on the ocean. He's making a visual and sonic poem that is showing us the symphony of this machinery. And I would say the music and the visuals that Reem has made for that installation are so dramatic and emotionally moving that you don't even realize when instead of just thinking about this, you just like feel it through your entire system. That's one of the most dramatic moments that I think fairly he compares to the moon landing because many of us had these very elevated emotions looking at the global effort of people crossing a certain threshold of what we've found impossible. So this is the third work that is going to be presented in the main hall. And these three works are coming from radically different artistic and visual perspectives. They obviously also are discussing very different topics. They're placing human being in a very different place regarding how you look at what these works are about. But nevertheless, they are, in a way, creating a certain thematic framework for the entire work. show on that day and then we work with sutu who is obviously a great friend of rebecca has been exhibiting at rebecca many times and now he's returning with a new work that she made for the infinity room and he's one of the two artists working in the infinity room and i want to say that Infinity Rooms, for most of us, or probably many of us at least, when you think about an Infinity Room, well, you think about Kusama, right? Maybe you think about TeamLab. But it's a very, very unusual format when you think about it. It's a very unusual type of space. And it's a type of space that is really not that often used in exhibition spaces. It's more often than not associated with a certain form of entertainment. But it's also very hard to work in that space because you need to ask yourself so many questions about what does that space mean? How does it make you feel? And then what is it that you want to use it for? And so we have two artists that were I would say, challenged with that task. And one of them was Suchu. Another one is Wenyi Xie, a Taiwanese artist who debuted at Tribeca in 2022. And we're going to talk about Wenyi in a moment. And Suchu brought into that virtual space, and that's an intended pun, his absolutely unique neon style. He's making a work that in a way for me is both an echo of the pandemic era, but also a very good metaphor for our relationship with our virtual lives and our relationship to digital communities and digital identities. It's a piece that is called While We Wait. In a way, it's very much aligned with that initial concept of the show, which was all about, like, how do we wait together? And so it's a very, very colorful... It's almost very lavish, you know? I mean, the color palette is incredible. It's all glowing, you know? It's very musical and it feels a little retro sometimes because some of the music makes me feel like, oh, this is like the opening score from Stranger Things. But then the level of depth and melancholy that Suju is also putting into this work and trying to critically look at like, who is it that we are in those spaces? We're all looking for some sort of a digital refuge. What is it that we're really expecting or what is it that we're really waiting for? So it's a very, very beautiful piece and very unexpected in a way where you look at it and think, oh, this is going to be so much fun. And it is. But then also there are so many other questions that this work is asking. And then on the other side of the scale, I would say Visually, specifically, we have Wenny's work, who is a very young artist. I'm so incredibly happy and I'm extremely proud of him because he actually has two works in the show, and he has not been in Mercer Labs just yet. He has a work in the room that is the first room you visit before you enter the main hall. the room is called the window because the screen is on the ceiling. And it looks a little bit like, you know, in the Renaissance architecture, you had the oculus, which was your portal to this other dimension that was above you. And that screen imitates a little bit that solution. And it's the first space you go into after you leave the busy New York City streets behind. And so when he has made a piece for that room, and then he made another one for the Infinity Room, that is going to rotate with Situ's piece. And when he is an incredible young artist that I would say blends two very different sources of inspiration, one being very profound, I would say, and very philosophical interest in certain scientific phenomenons and theories, And then another one being, I would say, almost a spiritual approach to human perception and to human psychology, but in the deepest possible way we can think about it. He works only in black and white. So the color palette of these two works is extremely monochrome, but it also becomes tremendously elegant. It feels really sublime to look at these words because they bring a sense of they're so clean and so elegant and all the lines and all the symbols that he's using are extremely dramatic through the simplicity. of that visual. These works are also very mysterious. There's a certain level of darkness. I don't want to say that in the literal meaning of the word, but they're also extremely relevant for me because I look at Wen Yi as a representative of a generation that is far from me. He could be my son. And I see that in a way he's speaking for this generation in a way that I think we should really carefully listen. But again, there's also so much more to what he offers. And we have a fantastic work that I think it's going to be very hard to describe because it's a sonic work. It's a work that is in the 40 sound room. It's a work that is part of the larger body of work of... Slovenian artist, Robertina Sibianić, that is called Kosonic, and it's made by Robertina as an iteration of a series of works that she made before. Kosonic is an audio piece that combines field recordings of a river in Slovenia that Robertina recorded to, in a way, reflect the relationship between the river and the ecosystem and all the life, human and non-human, that is around it throughout thousands and thousands of kilometers where that river goes underground and then it goes back on the surface and then it changes and it evolves. And then so all these field recordings are blended with sounds that are generated. obviously with the use of AI powered tools. And that effect is incredibly interesting because what Robertina did for specifically our installation was that she added sounds from the Hudson River and from the Atlantic Ocean and Then her edit was spatialized by the studio in Berlin called Monon, which is an incredible collective of audio geniuses that specialize in 4D sound and in spatial sound. And so it's a very abstract work, but for me, I want to say, and this is just my personal interpretation of this work, It's almost like, you know, if you imagine New York City or any megalopolis as Pompeii, as a city that used to be, but is no more. And you try to imagine the sound of all the ghosts and all the memories of that city as if it was still there. You know, it's for me when I listen to that, because you have the sounds of the city and the underwater sounds, and it's almost like we are that city. We are that society that lives in this beautiful place and doesn't even realize that we don't exist anymore. So this work is very, very interesting, and I hope that it's going to be an incredibly inspiring bridge between some of the audiovisual works I want to say that the last room that everyone will see is what is called the Dragon Room. This is an infinity room that is powered by LED Pulse, which is a volumetric display technology. It's absolutely unique, and I just really want everybody to see it. And for that room, the Mercer Labs is creating an adaptation of one scene from Liam Young's Planet City. but the VR experience, the VR version of Planet City. So the one that was at Tribeca two years ago. And this scene is a celebration. It's a scene that is inspired by a festival that is happening in Planet City, where all the citizens of Planet City and all the cultures that are there together are celebrating the resilience and the solidarity of this community that survived. And that final room is a festival, and it feels it's a space opera. It's incredible. But I wanted everybody to have a very celebratory finale of the journey. So I think that it's going to be a really interesting way to finish the experience and then to transit to those other parts of Mercer Labs that will be still open for our audience members, but are not part of the Tribeca programming. Gotcha.
[00:44:21.101] Kent Bye: Great. Yeah, that's a really great overview of what's going to be there at Mercer Labs and Tribeca, the initial selection. It's really exciting to see this new direction where you're taking this and definitely wish I could be there to see it for myself. So as I hear you speaking about this, it sounds like there's these main rooms and other subrooms and infinity rooms and like a number of different rooms. And one of the things as I was just looking at the schedule, it's around 69 minutes of total content, but it's split across these three different sections. And I guess one of the things that may be a little frustrating for people who are completionists like myself is that in order to actually see everything, you're going to have to come back three days and there may be one piece that only shows on one day that you haven't seen. And so is that because there's these main rooms and the idea of some of these pieces like frame rate I know is kind of like a endless infinite installation where it just repeats. And so instead of like interrupting that repetition is the idea that you just have some of those big rooms, just a single piece, or maybe just talk through a little bit why the decision rather than just buying one ticket to be able to see everything, to be able to see everything, they're going to have to actually come back to three days to see the full selection of eight pieces.
[00:45:33.416] Ana Brzezinska: No, that's a very fair question. So I need to clarify one thing. There's one work in every room. So no matter when you're coming to see the show, in every room you visit, and as I said, we curate one, there's always going to be just one work in that room. And it plays on repeat, right? So it's a looped session that is playing throughout the whole day. There's one artwork per room. And it's also quite different from what normally you would expect, is that because you can come in and out anytime you want, the way these works are designed is taking under consideration that there's no beginning, middle, or end to your experience. You might come in the middle of the piece, you might see it once or twice, you might stay for a minute, you might stay for 10 minutes. We don't control your behavior as an audience member. So because of that constraint and also because of that specificity, we needed to assume that this is a fragmented show anyway. It's a fragmented experience for you because even if you see the whole piece, and I think many people won't because they will maybe want to stay for just part of it or They will be with a group of friends. That's why, in a way, there's no need for everybody to see all the works. It really does depend which they choose. The shows on different days are different, but in a way, they are discussing the same phenomenon. They are together as one show. So I wouldn't say that there is a must and also there is no need to see everything. It's nice if you can come back the next day, but you're going to have an entirely different experience the next day. So... It's a very interesting format in that way, because I think we have to accept, and that's something that is part of the DNA of that show, that most of our contemporary experience, especially digital, but not only, is fragmented. We don't stay and we don't stick to things from the beginning through the middle till the end. Very rarely that happens. And so this is what the show is reflecting as well. And that's the reason why it's presented in that way. And also, personally, I think that you cannot show certain works together in the same space, because it's almost, I would find it disrespectful to show these works together one after another, because they are so powerful. They demand such a focus and presence that you can see just one. And then if you want to see another one, which is going to be an entirely different experience, well, then we want you to come one and every day and spend more time in the space.
[00:48:45.089] Kent Bye: Okay. That helps clarify a lot of things. One other follow on is that typically at Tribeca Immersive, there's been a story scapes competition that has focused on narrative innovations within storytelling, within the context of immersive media, usually virtual augmented reality, artificial intelligence. And so is there a story scapes competition this year, or is there any jury or any competition, or is this just an art exhibition this year?
[00:49:09.167] Ana Brzezinska: There's no jury. There's no competition. Yes, it's an exhibition.
[00:49:14.884] Kent Bye: Okay. Okay. And there's another thing that you had mentioned that there's a new incubator program called The Circle. Maybe you could just give a bit more context for what The Circle is and what's going to be starting up with this new incubator program.
[00:49:29.580] Ana Brzezinska: Yes. The Circle is something that I was thinking about since last year. We had a very interesting closed event at Trebek 2023 that was co-hosted by The New Ink at The New Museum and our friends at the EY Metaverse Labs. We had a meeting of around 20 different industry leaders about how can we best support artists in development. And we were trying to really dwell into all perspectives on why certain processes in developing and marketing works are not always as efficient as creators and studios would like them to be. So we were looking at it from a variety of perspectives, including business perspectives, which are very relevant. very rarely taken under consideration. And that got me to that idea that we're testing this year, and that's why it's a pilot edition. We still need to see how it works. Instead of creating a program where creators come to pitch and they have one-on-ones and then they go home, which is a very interesting format and is always a nice networking opportunity, but more often than not, it's not really very relevant. I thought that we should create a program where the support we offer is not just limited to these two days or one day when the creators come, that the support is not offered just by one institution, and that in a way it's a collective endeavor. And I'm just going to explain it in the simplest possible way, because this is how I was thinking about it and I still think about it that way. And I think that was also a consequence of one of my conversations with Paisley Smith. Paisley, I think, said one organization cannot just give everything to a creator. You don't have an organization that will give you money, technical support, strategic support, distribution. But then when I looked at people sitting at that table at Trebek a year ago, I said like, well, but if everybody sitting at the table put something on the table, like you put a grant on the table, you put like tech support, you put strategic support for sales, you put a tailored workshop to train people how to speak to big business and tech companies. Suddenly, when you have 12 people at the table who are the right people, that becomes a much more interesting conversation. So the circle is really a model that is based on the trust and the confidence between our associates, so the organizations that we invite to be part of it, that we work with, that I know, I trust, I admire, And then asking them, what is it that you can offer? What is it that you feel comfortable offering this year? And then they say like, well, this, or this. And so, and then I say like, okay, so we're going to bring three artists who are in a stage with their project where what you offer actually kind of fits the need of the artist. And so this is what we did. We brought three very different artists with very different projects at very different stages of development and production. And then I created a very personalized agenda for these three teams. based on agreements with all the associates from our lists, which these organizations are absolutely incredible, and they're led by incredible people, visionary people, that when they come to Gambra, you know, they're suddenly exponentially more efficient than when they have to play solo. So it's really all about trust. You know, it's an informal collaboration. There's no contract. You know, it's not a signed partnership. Nobody pays anybody. Like, everything goes to the artist. And then we're going to see how that works. And then the principle is that every associate has also allocated a specific number of hours after the festival and before the launch that we hope will happen at Tribeca either next year or in two years' time, where they will make themselves available to the creator when they need their help. Because that's the nature of that circle, is the village that is supporting you. And whenever you need help, you can reach out, obviously, within reason. So you cannot just call people like four times a day every day, but you're not alone afterwards in that process, which as we know, can be very difficult, especially when you need to finalize creative and strategic decisions as you get closer to the finish line. So that's the circle.
[00:54:03.999] Kent Bye: Awesome. Yeah, you have a list of a lot of really great organizations that you have in the release that I'll maybe read at the end just to give folks a number of support that you're having in this. It sounds like a really great opportunity for these folks. I did also want to ask one other follow-up question, which is that I heard back from one of the creators who had submitted from Tribeca saying that they got an email saying that as the immersive landscape evolves, our category is taking new shade to explore formats outside of AR VR this year. And our decision is not a reflection of the quality of work and that they're actually getting a refund. And so can you speak a bit about if there was a decision to potentially include both a immersive selection with VR AR immersive stories, like we've seen in the past. And at what point did you decide to not have any of that selection and then refund the people who did submit AR VR projects because of this pivot into a completely new direction?
[00:54:54.864] Ana Brzezinska: Yes. I want to say that, you know, again, this is a decision coming from the festival leadership that I'm very, very proud of because I think, you know, it reflects the thoughtfulness behind the fact that, you know, we made that decision quite late in the process. So our submissions usually open in September. And so because we didn't have a possibility to change our submission rules, the description of what is it that we are looking for, and we had already a significant number of submissions when these conversations started you know i think it's fair to say that the decision to refund creators is the only right decision you know we could have made but i think that you know i mean without going too much into details i think you know when you're trying to come up with a completely new format and take under consideration all the aspects. You know, you have the programming aspects, you have the production aspects, you have the audience journey aspects. You are working in collaboration with a partner that is Our collaboration with Mercer Labs is a very close collaboration. It's not a space that we... I'm saying this for the sake of clarifying certain reality to people that might not know about it. It's not like we're coming to a rented space and we do whatever we want. This is a dialogue and a collaboration that is happening with a lot of respect. to the principles that both sides are led by. And then another thing is also a certain thought process that I personally had to go through, which is, what is the best experience we can offer to the artist? Right? If you are offering, you know, a festival, a world premiere, which is a lot, and it's an important decision to make for a creator, you know, you want this work to be presented and seen by people in certain environment that you will be proud of. And I think that we were considering all scenarios, but I also wouldn't like anyone to have to compete with that scale and the impact of what Mercer Labs and works that we have in the primary space at Mercer Labs is capable of. And I think the user experience behind a lot of works made in virtual reality or even if they're made for a different type of device, but that require a certain intimacy and that solitary experience that is maybe more beneficial for how you perceive the work. This is not what we do this year. And it would actually hurt certain artworks that were offered to us, even if it was possible. I'm not saying it was, but even if I would imagine a reality where, let's say, we can bring everything. into that new space, which is obviously not something realistic to consider. But then would it be a good curatorial decision in terms of the care you offer to the artist? I would say no.
[00:58:14.201] Kent Bye: Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And one other thing I just wanted to give an opportunity to make a quick comment on was that you mentioned that Ink Stories NYC with Block Party, Wodega, which has a logline of a hyper psychedelic AAA open world game where cooperation is king, competition is a party, and players are the mercenaries of joy. So in what context are you going to be giving a preview of this Ink Stories VR game?
[00:58:38.693] Ana Brzezinska: I really like how you read that description. But it's, as you know, and people who went to Tribeca before know as well, is that we always host talks and panels in Spring Studios that are, in a way, creating that additional frame to what is happening in the main show. And so similarly, this year, we still have a series of events happening in Spring Studios, and then obviously there will be other partner events. And the Ink Stories early preview is part of that programming in Spring Studios that is, I would say, available under Tribeca Talks. We're going to have two sets of group artist talks with creators who are presenting at Mercer Labs. Because we really want to have conversations about their practice, their process, how we got there. And also really to give them the opportunity to break down what this whole process has meant for them. And I think it's going to be super interesting in the context of the evolving market. But with Ink Stories, what's going to be... And I think it's going to be a great event. Because it's half... live preview, have artist talk. It's going to be moderated by Michaela Jernoski-Holland, who's obviously a superstar. And A-Story, it's been very, very long now since they started to build Block Party. And it's not just a gig. Block Party is a multi-platform incredible experience that is a screen-based experience, a virtual reality experience, a mobile experience. But at the heart of it is something that I personally think is a dream come true of when you build a universe, a virtual world, a virtual twin of a city in a way where what you prioritize is not profit, is not winning, but it's social connection and joy. Like just having fun in a space that makes you feel like You're feeling well. You're feeling like this is playful. This is a place where you want to connect with people. And it looks like New York, but it's obviously an Ink Stories version of New York. So it's just tremendously playful and colorful and full of very different characters that are modeled and trained based on real people living in Brooklyn. And in a way, when I demoed it for the first time, I went to Ink Story Studio and Vasiliki and Navi, they were just playing it and they were telling me about this experience. And I realized, and that was actually before we knew about the Mercer Labs exhibition, And I was like, how am I going to show that piece? This is such a wonderful work. This is so incredible just to be here. And then I said, you know what? This is how I want to show it. I want you to sit with people as if it was happening in your living room. and just show them how you are building this world. Because it's so rare to have access to an artist that is inviting you to see the process from the inside. And it's almost like they are your personal, they're your private guys. They're saying like, we're going to play this together now. And then they're telling you how it was built. And then you're going to have Michaela asking them all the right questions. So I think it's going to be a very performative event and nothing near a traditional talk. But I think, again, the reason why I really want this to be part of this year is because it feels like a breath of fresh air. It feels like there's a world where we can be happy again. And we're not a threat in the world that Ink Stories built. And I think that's the best thing that I personally find in block parties.
[01:02:34.443] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, I know that this new direction at Mercer Labs is going to be a real pivot and shift and change and kind of a new format, and it'll be very interesting to see how that continues to evolve over time since we do have other venues like Cosm is going to be starting to open up here in June. We also have The Spear in Las Vegas, but there's also... Even within the context of New York City, there is The Shed, I think an immersive space that I had a chance to visit last year. There's MoMA. So there's other venues that are in the city that could potentially in the future start to see as new formats emerge or displaying these types of immersive experiences, then that may continue to change the curation that may be completely unique to what's available for Tribeca there in the context of New York City. Is there any other shows or anything that people should potentially go check out while they're in town? I know that Onyx on NASA Studio usually has some sort of gathering and exhibition that's during Tribeca. And I got a chance to see a piece at the Shed last year on the Magic Leap 2. Is there anything that folks should maybe go check out while they're in New York City?
[01:03:34.286] Ana Brzezinska: Yes. So, I mean, there's going to be also a very interesting event that we're co-hosting with Kaz at the Neue Haus on June 10. We're going to discuss very similar questions to what you just described, but from the perspective of the commissioners. So in a way, like when you sit with a commissioner and you're an artist, like how can a commissioner help you to have a more successful collaboration with the venue. And by venue, I mean, you know, museums, immersive venues, any kind of venues. We're going to have Miriam from Vice Center. We're going to have Neil from Cosm. And we're going to have Jerome, who's the curator of new and emerging media at Art Science Museum in Singapore. And then I will have the pleasure to moderate a conversation. So we'll switch from the creator's perspective to the commissioner's perspective for a moment. And then there's going to be the summer showcase at Onyx Anastas that will open, I believe, just a day before we open. And there's going to be a lot of very cool works on the view, but also Onyx is showing prototypes of two works from our circle incubator because Onyx and Anastas are also part of the circle. And that's something I am very excited about because it's super important for the artists to have a chance to present works when they work with decision makers. And there's going to be a show called Demo that is hosted by The New Ink. I believe it opens on June 5. So that's another. And it's shorter. I think it's just two or three days. And this is, again, a presentation of the results of the work of the entire cohort that has been with the New Ink this year. There's going to be, to my best knowledge, an event at the Lincoln Center that Situ is involved in. He's the art director for the full exhibition. And it has also live event components. It's called the Dream Machine. And then there's also going to be, if I remember correctly, a lot of fantastic exhibitions in New York City during that summer period. But this is mainly for people who are interested in fine arts. and more traditional art market. But there's Jenny Halzer at the Guggenheim, there's the Benally at the Whitney Museum, there's the Catalan at the Gaussian Gallery. I mean, there's really so much going on in New York that it's very hard to compete with it. But if someone plans to come to New York for a couple of days, the list is really long this year.
[01:06:08.061] Kent Bye: Awesome. Yeah. When I was there last year, I was asking people around. So I'm glad that you were providing a little bit of an overview of stuff for people to go check out and make sure you get tickets and go see this or that. So yeah, for sure. I guess as we start to wrap up, what do you think the ultimate potential of this immersive medium and how it continues to evolve, what it might be and what it might be able to enable?
[01:06:30.096] Ana Brzezinska: I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, it's very funny because every year we meet and every year we're trying to answer that question. And I have to say that, you know, maybe it's just me because it's been a very intense time. You know, it's not easy to make a show like that. But I'm very curious to learn from it. I'm very curious to learn from what people will say. I feel like, you know, I see certain patterns and where immersive is heading. What will remain and what will change, I honestly don't know. There's a lot of things that I've been leading recently. People say like, oh, Apple Vision Pro, and it was supposed to change everything. It didn't change anything, in my opinion. Actually, I think it's so. Philosophically, there's a lot of disappointment, I think. And it's not about technology. It's about the approach to what it means. How you bring it to people with a certain proposition of how you want them to live with it. This is the kind of question that I'm interested in. At the end of the day, I'm not that much interested about the screen or the displays, better or worse. There are so many headsets on the market. But what is interesting is what does it mean for me to use it? So in a way, it's hard to predict. And then you have, as you were saying, you have venues, impressive venues like the Sphere and Cosm and museums are opening to immersive. But venues were opening before the pandemic and then the pandemic hit and then there was a lot of... disappointment and sadness. So we never know. What I think is interesting, at least for me, is to what I would like to do, and we spoke about it, is that I would like us to be able to take a step back to understand what is it that we have achieved so far in order not to lose the most important learnings. But also to try to say, how do we challenge ourselves thoughtfully? What is it that we want to achieve next? Because if we just want to run and rush, and we really don't know what is it that we're trying to achieve, we're just running for the sake of being part of the race. I don't know that this is actually worth anything. So that's the kind of things that I've been thinking about recently. And I would like our industry to remain very focused on the quality more than ever.
[01:09:04.366] Kent Bye: Yeah. Yeah, one other reflection I have is just that I just had my 10 year anniversary here in May of the Voices of VR podcast. And so as I've been watching the industry evolve, a persistent issue and question that's come up is distribution and the way that how do these immersive works specifically immersive storytelling or even pieces of immersive art, how do they have a life outside of the festival context? And I think by partnering with institutions that already have some level of distribution mechanism where some of these artists that show during this exhibition may potentially get a commission and there may be new distribution outlets, but also that if there are like Mercer Labs, unprecedented five wall type of place, maybe if it's successful enough, there will be other of those types of installations open up around the world and then more distribution options for these types of artists. So yeah, just that question of distribution of having a context for the work to be shown and that this is something that had come up where people were talking about the cinema of attractions and how the early phases of films were shown in the context of like a carnival or like something that wasn't like what ultimately became a movie theater. And so maybe we're kind of moving into this space where what is the equivalent of the movie theater for immersive? And we have things like the Sphere, like Cosm, like Mercer Labs, like these other institutions that are coming up that are trying to come up with the formats that may end up ultimately being the new quote unquote movie theater for immersive that isn't necessarily like in spring studios with the VR headset on. It may be something that is much more like what you're moving in the direction this year. So as I think about this in terms of where is the overall industry going, there's a sense of perhaps closing the gap between having an ephemeral context of exhibition that then there's nowhere for that to go because the logistics of trying to have that in other places for VR have been pretty high friction, whereas what you're moving towards is much more lower friction and may provide new opportunities, not only starting with immersive art, but potentially with kind of more forms of storytelling that may start to infuse in these spaces in the future. So that's just one of my closing thoughts as we've been talking about all this.
[01:11:19.090] Ana Brzezinska: Yeah, I think it's very important what you're saying. It also brings another, you know, maybe thing to just add is that closing that gap means that, you know, venues like Sphere, venues like Mercer Labs, venues like Cosm, ultimately, they need to make profits. You need to sell tickets. And because they're so, so big and they're so vulnerable in a way because of that scale, they're impressive, but gigantic structures are often more vulnerable than smaller structures. And when you think about the movies and the screening rooms, It's different when you have something that is tailored for 100 people and then when you have something that requires thousands of people every day, because it's a football stadium model, right? You have to be really capable of filling that space with people. And that comes with many strategic decisions that also decide about how people, en masse, understand what immersive means. And we have to also take under consideration, how do we create spaces for works that are maybe not necessarily something that will attract 10,000 people a day? Because it's not always possible, certain types of works. And it's similar to the problem with the works that are made for VR headsets. When you make a very good shooter game for a quest, Of course, you're going to get more downloads and more views, and when you make a narrative, interactive, impact-driven story, that will have much less downloads. But nevertheless, it also deserves a place in the whole cultural ecosystem. So carving those spaces specifically for works that cannot compete with stuff that will be in Vegas or that will be at Mercer Labs. We are in a privileged position because we're a very big festival and the brand of Tribeca in New York is extremely strong. So we can come and curate a show that introduces independent creators And that's why it's a very unique opportunity. But immersive labs are also a space that will need to strategize around how they fill that space every day, 365 days a year. And that is a whole other conversation and it's obviously very interesting. But I think it's something to take into consideration as well.
[01:13:56.372] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, is there anything else that's left unsaid that you'd like to say to the broader immersive community?
[01:14:00.862] Ana Brzezinska: I want to say that the fact that you've been doing Voices of VR for the past 10 years is not only something that keeps that community together because you are the memory of everything that this industry has been working on and you have given so much Heart and time and attention to every single one of us that, you know, there's no example of any other activity like this in that industry. And I want to just say how, you know, impressed I am with what you do and how grateful I am that you are. still doing this. And I hope you will continue on doing this for the next 10 years and the next 10 years and the next 10 years, and that we will be able to use your memory to reflect on what is it that we've done well? What is it that maybe we can change? So thank you for doing this and please do it. Do more, do more of that. Don't stop.
[01:15:04.626] Kent Bye: Yeah, for sure. You're quite welcome. And it's been a joy and a pleasure to bear witness to reflecting back to listening to the stories and helping to weave an overarching story for how this is all evolving. And this is certainly a turning point in my mind in this conversation. decision to have this pivot you know we were waiting for the announcement for tribeca it was you know supposed to come out on may 9th it was like waiting to see okay what's happening what's happening and then you know a bit of surprise to see this completely new shift and so it's really exciting to see this new direction and kind of really leaning in towards What happens if you really open up to the change in format and what does that allow for how that's going to shape the industry? Because it's really curators like yourself that are helping to provide those distribution opportunities for these independent artists that are going to help potentially push the entire industry in these new directions. This is a pivot and a shift that, you know, we've had, you have a doc lab with dome experiences. And so I think doc lab has been really at the forefront of helping to also look at that and be open toward like, they've had a dome selection for a number of years. So I feel like this is in some ways in the spirit of that kind of looking at these other formats and yeah, the fact that the entire selection is kind of really trying to push that forward is really exciting to see where that may go this year and where it's going to go in the future. So yeah. Thanks again for joining me to help give a bit more context to this pivot in this shift and to give a lot more of both the art history context and philosophical context and all the other dynamics of what's happening in the industry and how this may continue to shift things as we move forward.
[01:16:34.946] Ana Brzezinska: Thank you, Kent. It was a pleasure.
[01:16:37.649] Kent Bye: So that was Anna Brzezinska. She's the immersive curator for Tribeca Immersive. So I have a number of different takeaways about this interview is that first of all, well, it was a little bit of a surprise for everybody in the immersive community that Tribeca Immersive is going in this completely new direction. And again, I'll be curious to see how this continues to play out over the longterm. If there will ever be like a VR, AR immersive storytelling selection ever again, I hope that there will just because I still think there's so many other aspects that are still happening and developing and evolving within the medium that I think it's worth just like there's podcast selections and game selections and film selections that I still think that there's merit of having AR VR stories that are also being featured in that this whole other aspect of immersive art with what seems to be very specifically connected to some of these different places where they have technological capabilities to be able to show pieces that you really couldn't show anywhere else in the world. The dragon room that was described sounds really quite fascinating. From the Instagram for the Mercer Labs, they described the dragon room as volumetric aligning allows visitors to see voxels, volumetric pixels of light and space. The light source is modeled as a transparent object in a container of volume. The resulting effect is of passing through a hologram. The use of mirrors and advanced technology unlock the power of three-dimensional visualization to create a cascade of luminescent particles that appear suspended in infinite space. The individual light particles in an architectural format offer virtually endless opportunities for formal reinvention. The volumetric installation powered by at-LED pulse Dragon O2 technology features a unique configuration exclusive to Mercer Labs. This remarkable installation, the largest of its kind, and incorporates more than half a million LED neurons, microchips, meticulously synchronized to create an unparalleled visual experience. So that sounds like really quite wild to be able to see. I unfortunately won't be able to make it this year to try Commercive just because I have a family medical situation that's going to be limiting my travel this year. But Liam Young is an architect that I've interviewed before when he had his piece, Planet City VR, at Tribeca. And they're going to be showing some scenes where he's kind of imagined what it would be like if all of a sudden everybody in the world decided to all live into one city. It'd be basically the size of Texas and there'd be like 10 billion people there. Not that that's actually a feasible thing to do, but it's more of a thought experiment to start to design different types of architectural infrastructure so that when you design for that use case, are there ways that you can actually design something that would be practical to deploy out today? So that's kind of the thought experiment idea behind Planet City VR. And to be able to actually step through some of the holograms of the architectural visualizations that he's come across with this giant city where everybody in the world is living in, I think that's going to be pretty remarkable. So there's two Infinity Rooms. There's The Great Filter by Wenyi She, who I have an unpublished interview that I did at Filmgate Interactive. And then SUTU, who's got a piece called While We Wait. I also have an unpublished interview that I did at Tribeca Immersive back in 2019. There's a whole 4D sound room that has an immersive audio installation with CoSonic, 38,144 kilometers squared by Robertina Simjankic, and then the invisible theme by Wenyi Xie. So there's three main rooms and it's the piece that's in this main ballroom. I believe this is the two story high, five LED ballrooms that it's split up into three different sessions that run four different times. So there's a total of like 12 different days. But the first one, The Body and the World, is featuring the embodied simulation by Memo Atkin and Katie Payton Hofstetter. And that's going to be on the 6th, 9th, 12th, and 15th of June. And then June 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th, there's the Redesigning Tomorrow show, which is Scenes from the Future that is already here. And that's featuring The Great Endeavor by Liam Young. And then finally on June 8th, 11th, 14th, and 17th is Scam Lab Projects from the UK, who's doing framerate rhythms around us, which I first saw at South by Southwest 2022 and did an interview with them, and then actually later showed at Venice. So there has been a number of different immersive art that has been showing at places like Venice Immersive, where they have a couple of immersive art pieces, as well as IFA Doc Lab has had a number of different immersive art installations. so it's something that has been happening within the immersive industry for a while and just very interesting to see that this year's entire selection is going to be going in that direction and the reason that anna was describing that she doesn't want to punish anyone anymore that it's been hard enough and that she's really trying to create these spaces of refuge she did a whole write-up called in the stillness of synthetic light note on jamaica immersive 2024 where she's giving a lot more context as to the why that she's going in this direction and She says in that piece, I believe that before we start seeking hope, which I expect to become a major theme in many upcoming art events, we need space for reflection and respite that allows for a radical suspension of judgment. And then at the end she says, because the times we live in are profoundly and unequivocally dark, we are moving together through artificially lit darkness, full body scrolling through digital realms, looking for a place from which to move again towards natural light. Under the sheltering sky of memories and fantasy, we weave and unravel narratives that we once knew as whole, and we create new stories from brief moments of random experiential connection. We are separated in this experience. We have radically different ideas about why and how we got here in the first place, and none of us wants to be here. We all want to return home. But where do we go when we're all displaced? So that's some of the artistic direction that is underlying the motivation to put together these six different immersive artists across these eight different pieces that are showing from June 6th to June 17th. So, yeah, it sounds like an amazing selection of stuff, and I really wish I could be there to see it all. But I hope to potentially follow up with some of the makers and creators afterwards to give a sense of what it might have been like. It's certainly nothing like actually being in so many different places, especially that Dragon LED installation, which sounds quite amazing. One other point is just to point out that they've got this new Circle Incubator where Anna has selected three different projects to get this collaborative incubator to be able to support top digital talent. It includes Accenture Song, Art Science Museum Singapore, Cosm, EY Metaverse Labs, Google, Meta, MIT Open Documentary Lab, Onyx, Onasa Studios, Fi Center, Runway, and Zero Space. So quite a list of different organizations that are helping to mentor and support these different projects in any way that they can and be sure to check out the list of different events that are also happening during traffic immersive since i know that onyx and nasa studios for the last couple of years has featured a number of different projects and anna said that a couple of the projects that are part of the circle will also be featured there during their exhibition So, yeah, just a move in a completely different direction. And because it's situated in New York, there are some of these different locations that would be able to be able to do that. I know that Cosm is going to be also opening up in June. There's what's sort of like the Sphere, but much smaller scale. I think the Sphere is like 17,000 plus seats and the Cosm may be like a few thousand seats larger. So it's something that's much smaller scale that is going to allow much more experimentation than what you might see with something like the sphere. And I have a unpublished interview that I did with the founders at Cosm that I did at Tribeca that I hope to air sometime when I start to air more of the coverage that I did from Tribeca last year from other folks from the industry, since there's lots of different events this month that I'll be covering in different ways. But I wanted to just give a little bit more context for what's happening with Tribeca Immersive, especially because it's going in such a different direction. And it was really helpful for me to get a little bit more context from Anna just to see how that all came about and what her motivations were to be able to do this. And we'll see where it goes in the future, if they continue to do these different types of collaborations with these different spaces, and if they bring back the AR and VR storytelling experiences here at some point here in the future. So that's all I have for today, and I just wanted to thank you for listening to the Voices of VR podcast. And if you enjoy the podcast, then please do spread the word, tell your friends, and consider becoming a member of the Patreon. This is a supported podcast, and so I do rely upon donations from people like yourself in order to continue to bring you this coverage. So you can become a member and donate today at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. Thanks for listening.
