I interviewed Finalmente Eu (Finally Me) director Marcio Sal at Venice Immersive 2023. See more context in the rough transcript below.
This is a listener-supported podcast through the Voices of VR Patreon.
Music: Fatality
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.452] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR Podcast. It's a podcast that looks at immersive storytelling, experiential design, and the future of spatial computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. So this is episode three out of 35 from Venice Immersive 2023, and This is the second out of four of the different pieces that are in the context of identity and self and this piece is called Finally Mean by Marcia Saul. It's a story about a man who is in Brazil and he's working in a brothel and he is in the process of slowly discovering his own sexual identity. And so it's a bit of a coming out story. And by the end, he's able to be received fully within the context of the community. So the center of gravity of presence is in emotional presence is a linear narrative that is taking you through this story of coming out and you have different embodied interactions without this piece, you're kind of switching between first person and third person perspective, and you have this sense of environmental design and in these brothel from a tabletop scale and being embodied into a first-person perspective and There's light interactivity as well as you have this opportunity to start to play these different musical instruments So that's what we're coming on today's episode of the voices of VR podcast. So this interview with Marcio happened on Saturday September 2nd 2023 at the Venice immersive in Venice, Italy. So with that let's go ahead and dive right in
[00:01:35.345] Marcio Sal: My name is Marcelo Sal. I'm from Brazil. That's my debut as a VR director with Finally Me. My background is I've been working as an animator and art director for 20 years. And it's a pleasure to premiere in Finally Me here in Venice Festival.
[00:01:54.321] Kent Bye: Great. Maybe you could give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into working with virtual reality.
[00:02:01.257] Marcio Sal: Well, virtual reality is a very strong tool to tell stories because with the interactivity and the immersive, we can reach the audience in a deeper level. So it's a very powerful tool. That was the reason that I started researching and experimenting this kind of narrative.
[00:02:25.753] Kent Bye: Yeah, and maybe you could tell me a bit more about this project that you have at Venice called Finally Me.
[00:02:31.416] Marcio Sal: Yeah, Finally Me is a story that talks a lot about me. During the pandemic, lockdown, I start thinking, well, death was very near to us. And then I start thinking how much time we spent worried with the other opinions. And as an LGBT person, I waste a lot of time hiding myself and trying to... Yeah, it's a tale of self-discovery. But I wanted to tell is as a universal to anyone can connect with it.
[00:03:09.946] Kent Bye: Yeah, and so maybe you could tell me about your main character that you have in your piece.
[00:03:14.670] Marcio Sal: The main character, his name is Mr. Saúl. He's an elder musician, and he stayed like 100 years locked. He lives in a brothel in Rio, and he play clarinet, but anyone cares about him. And through Carnival and through the music, he found the courage to break free.
[00:03:40.743] Kent Bye: Yeah, and so maybe you could talk a bit about the character design, because there's a unique aspect to this character as he reveals his hat. But there's a part of him, I guess, identifying with other people with that same characteristic. So you're in some ways using symbolism to talk about identity and LGBTQ plus IA identities. But yeah, maybe talk about how you decided to symbolically represent that in your piece.
[00:04:07.685] Marcio Sal: Yeah, the character design is a very important stage of the creation because as much as you tell the character's story through his design, I love creating characters and bringing them to life. I decided to represent this uniqueness with the horn. It's a unicorn horn. and he hides his horn with a hat. And with the interactivity, the audience can discover his secret and also help him in his journey.
[00:04:41.700] Kent Bye: You said it's a personal story, so maybe you could talk about how this story is connected to your own story.
[00:04:47.162] Marcio Sal: Yeah, this is basically my personal story. For example, Carnival and music was the vehicle of his transformation. And it was the same in my life. In Rio, in Brazil, it's very common to find people saying that, oh, I live for Carnival. And yes, I do live for Carnival. And Carnival was the place where I found space to express my authenticity. And also through the music. And yes, we waste a lot of time hiding ourselves. And I think it was the most important layer that connect with my story.
[00:05:28.557] Kent Bye: Yeah, and in the piece you have like a little bit smaller scale and then sometimes you're embodying the character in first person and so maybe talk about your process of moving back and forth between first person perspective and then third person perspective with this tabletop smaller scale of the puppet-like characters.
[00:05:49.087] Marcio Sal: Yeah, my intention was to create a story to be told through VR and use the VR narratives to create this story. And in VR we can use the space, the physical space, as a storytelling item. At the beginning of the story, on purpose, I put the audience in a small place to make a little bit of claustrophobia. And on contrast, at the end, you are in a free space, a very large space. And the change of perspective, the point of view, was a very important item that I used to Sometimes you watch the story as the third person and everything is small and the character is like a puppet and when you are at the first person point of view everything is at one per one. And it's not easy to make this kind of change of point of view in VR and I think that's it.
[00:06:53.627] Kent Bye: Yeah, and you have a little bit of interactivity with being able to somewhat play the instrument as you're moving around. And yeah, maybe talk about the role of music in this character's life and being able to embody and interact with being able to play these songs as well.
[00:07:09.523] Marcio Sal: Yeah, the first thing I did was to think about the interactive itself. My intention was to blur the limit between the character and the audience. Yeah, to reach the audience in a deeper level. But very simple interactivities just to make the audience feel that they are really helping character with a helping hand. and playing an instrument like a kind of guitar hero game. It was a way to make this interactive realized in this story.
[00:07:43.864] Kent Bye: Yeah, and there's also a catalyzing moment in the piece where the main character meets another LGBTQ plus character that comes in. And maybe you could talk about creating this scene of recognizing or something becoming unlocked in that discovery.
[00:08:00.630] Marcio Sal: Yeah, I think that's exactly how it appears in the story, because sometimes you have to find the space where people are the same as you. Mr. Saúl, the character, he lives in a space only with masculine space is a bordel and then for the first time he met another person with the horn and that's the turning point for him and yes at the end of the story he find many other people with horn and proud with their horn and became happy.
[00:08:37.712] Kent Bye: Yeah, so you're really trying to tell the story without much use of language or words, and so you're trying to visually communicate all these things. So, yeah, talk about what other influences that you're pulling in from either theater or gaming or animation or film. What are the other influences that you use to try to tell the story in a purely visual fashion?
[00:09:00.932] Marcio Sal: Yeah, my main influence was another Brazilian piece in VR that's Aline, Alinha, from Ricardo Laganaro. When I watched this experience, my mind started bubbling with creativity and I said, yeah, that's a new way to tell a story. And I tried to make it as intuitive as possible without the narrator. Yeah, and try to make it simple. And it's very exciting to watch the audience, how they interact and how they move their body. Because at the beginning of the story, the character is sad and he is with slow movement. And at the end, he is happy and dancing. And it's very, it may be thrilling to me to see audience dancing at the end as the character is.
[00:09:56.435] Kent Bye: What has been the reaction here at Venice to the piece?
[00:10:00.299] Marcio Sal: I'm receiving such nice feedback. Some people gave me hug after watching it. I think, yes, I think it's nice feedback here in Venice. I think people is enjoying it.
[00:10:15.732] Kent Bye: Great. And finally, what do you think the ultimate potential of virtual reality might be and what it might be able to enable?
[00:10:26.422] Marcio Sal: Well, I hope VR can reach as many people as possible. I know that today it's not possible because it's not so popular, but it's a very potent way of telling stories.
[00:10:42.234] Kent Bye: Is there anything else that's left unsaid that you'd like to say to the broader immersive community?
[00:10:48.837] Marcio Sal: Well, this project, I think there is a strong characteristic of it, that it's a project of resilience. Because in Brazil we had a very difficult time because of our past government and it was a very challenging time for culture and mainly for LGBT community. And, yes, I was staying at home, projecting this project by myself, by my own, and I'm very proud that this message is now disponible for all the world. And I think all the creators, all the artists who have idea has to get the tools and make and produce and create.
[00:11:36.317] Kent Bye: Yeah, well, I think you've been able to use the tool of virtual reality to be able to tell the story of coming out. And from the switching of perspectives and giving this sense of an arc of being isolated and alone into discovering themselves and be a part of a broader community. So yeah, just a short and sweet piece in VR. And thanks for taking the time to help break it down a little bit. So thank you.
[00:11:57.332] Marcio Sal: Oh, thank you so much.
[00:11:59.463] Kent Bye: Thanks for listening to this interview from Fitness Immersive 2023. You can go check out the Critics' Roundtable in episode 1305 to get more breakdown in each of these different experiences. And I hope to be posting more information on my Patreon at some point. There's a lot to digest here. I'm going to be giving some presentations here over the next couple of months and tune into my Patreon at patreon.com slash Voices of VR, since there's certainly a lot of digest about the structures and patterns of immersive storytelling, some of the different emerging grammar that we're starting to develop, as well as the underlying patterns of experiential design. So, that's all I have for today, and thanks for listening to the Voices of VR podcast. And again, if you enjoyed the podcast, then please do spread the word, tell your friends, and consider becoming a member of the Patreon. This is a listener-supported podcast, and so I do rely upon donations from people like yourself in order to continue to bring this coverage. So you can become a member and donate today at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. Thanks for listening.
