My favorite narrative VR piece that I’ve seen so far this year is Rose Colored by Adam Cosco that premiered at VRLA. It’s a science fiction morality tale that is asking us to look at a potential future of immersive technology. I’m cautious to say much more without spoiling his experience, and so I’d highly recommend checking out Rose Colored either on Vimeo, Facebook, YouTube, or Samsung VR before listening to this interview.
VR Scout recently named Cosco as “one of VR’s Early Auteurs,” and I definitely have to agree. He has a distinct style with a lot to say about the impact of technology on our humanity.
Rose Colored is his fourth VR narrative piece, and the first one written specifically for VR. There’s a lot of profound ideas explored in the piece that really stuck with me afterwards, and I had a chance to dive in and unpack it with Cosco at VRLA in April. We do cover many spoilers in this discussion and so I recommend checking it out first in order to have the full experience.
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Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.452] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. My name is Kent Bye and welcome to The Voices of VR Podcast. So on today's episode, I'm going to be talking about my favorite narrative VR piece that I've seen this year so far. And that piece is Rose Colored by Adam Kosko. And it just got released this past weekend and it's available today. You can see it on Vimeo, Facebook, Samsung VR. There's a lot of different places. All the links will be in the description. And I highly, highly recommend that you go watch it before you listen to this podcast interview because we're going to be unpacking it and talking about it. It's a bit of a, like a morality tale in the vein of Black Mirror. And so it just be better for you to go have the experience of the narrative piece and then listen to this podcast so we can unpack it and kind of talk about it and really dive into a lot of the juicy bits of what he's talking about. So go check it out, pause this and come back. I'll be waiting here. So this interview with Adam happened at VRLA. That was happening at the Los Angeles convention center on Saturday, April 15th, 2017. So with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:01:18.412] Adam Cosco: I'm Adam Kosko. I'm a VR writer and director, and I've made about four short films at this point, and I just showed you the fourth one, which is called Rose Coloured, and it's a sci-fi short film. It's very much in the vein of Black Mirror, and it kind of uses the technology to comment on the technology.
[00:01:38.527] Kent Bye: Yeah, I actually really, really, really enjoyed it. And it's got a lot of canny insights of projecting out into the future, much like Black Mirror does, but doing it and seeing where the technology is and where it's going to go in the future, but unpacking some social implications that people may have not thought about. And you're starting with one premise and really starting from that starting point and seeing how that unfolds. So maybe you could talk about that process as you're trying to look into the future and write stories in that way.
[00:02:08.733] Adam Cosco: Oh, cool. Yeah, this particular story, Rose Colored, is like, I guess the premise and the way that it started, the inception for it was just the concept of thinking of like a Facebook feed and just thinking of like how people present themselves versus like what's actually really going on. And like that unto itself isn't really that insidious of an idea. but then I started to like think about how that could blow up from there and how if people really wanted to feel only good about themselves and never wanted to like encounter criticism or conflict or a kind of like other way of looking at things how if we allow this technology that can alter the way that the world is presented to us like how far could it go so that we could protect our fragile egos and so I started thinking of it from like that standpoint and I thought the most daunting or rather the most like the scariest thing would be like if it was happening like the closest to home with the people that you like cared the most about if you never truly knew them kind of thing.
[00:03:13.400] Kent Bye: The thing that I find really fascinating about this piece is sort of the sociological impact of technology. And I would sort of characterize it in the different dimensions of presence that I have. I see that we have social mental presence, we have embodied presence, we have active presence, and we have emotional presence. And it feels like your piece is really exploring emotional presence in a really key way in the sense of what's the opposite of that? What's sort of a constructed emotional presence that's not actually authentic? I mean, you mentioned the Facebook feed as an example of people how they may want to put their best foot forward or maybe kind of filter out the messy parts of their life and really just kind of broadcast stuff that's going to get positive affirmation and kind of be something that is gonna be putting their best foot forward. And in some sense, you're taking that to the next extreme of like what happens when you start to put that on top of augmented reality in the context of a relationship.
[00:04:07.667] Adam Cosco: Yeah. Yeah, I think the words you used, emotional presence, is exactly what it's about. And I think, like, I've always thought that, like, the film deals with a male-female dynamic in a relationship. And in my experiences, emotional presence, like, in that dynamic is always in a heightened state at the beginning of the relationship. and it's like a drug like that kind of like this is the one this is the one you know and then as either the man or the woman starts to usually the man if we're being honest starts to drift and starts to like let their presence go to other areas it can kind of a lot of times the significant other starts to question, like, is this, like, was this person that I saw before the same? But all that's happening is that something becomes commonplace. And so the movie kind of asks some questions about, like, whose fault is it? Like, is it the expectation that people maintain that level of, like, high interest all the time? Or is it, or is it, I don't know. Like, I don't know whose fault it is.
[00:05:05.463] Kent Bye: So, like, you know, like... Well, I have some opinions. I mean, I feel like that, there's a certain dimension of emotional presence that I think is crucial to relationships. And I do think that it is something that is not emphasized in our culture and that we have so many different levels of presence of mental and social presence, of abstracted presence. And so we have so many different ways to stimulate our minds through technology that sort of makes us more disembodied. So we're looking at our phones or we're, you know, we get kind of caught up in the minutia of being able to actually just take care of all the logistics of living. That's a lot of pressure. And then there's a certain escapist quality that can happen either through technology or through watching movies and whatnot. So cultivating a sense of intimacy and emotional presence is a skill that I don't necessarily think our culture has rewarded or valued, but it's also, it's kind of the crucial thing for actually having a healthy relationship.
[00:06:00.913] Adam Cosco: Yeah, and it's like, I mean, just commenting on the technology, like the VR technology used to comment on the AR technology, it's just that, like, we kind of need morality tales to, like, guide us because, like, I definitely don't want to drift into the realm of, like, finger pointing or, like, making people feel ashamed that, because I, I'm making VR movies, I believe in it, and I don't believe that it's going to be an alienating thing. We're not going to, I don't think it's going to end up like Wall-E where we're all just, like, looking at screens, you know what I mean? But I still think it's important to talk about the dark side. of where it can go. But the problems that exist in this movie and some of the other movies I have rolling around my head are problems that we've always found ways for those problems to crop up, irrespective of technology. So this is just like, it's technology as a metaphor for what people tend to do in relationships anyway. It's just that now we have this extra layer, a filter that can preserve these things for a period of time before it all falls apart, you know? Yeah.
[00:07:02.189] Kent Bye: Yeah, and when I think about the domains of human experience, I think romantic partnerships and love interests are a part of our lives and that right now we haven't seen a lot of virtual reality experiences that are really exploring what it means to go on a date in VR, for example, because I think there's a technological limitation where there's the people who would be interested in dating, you know, they may not even have the technology, but yet the people who are creating the experiences aren't thinking about the types of virtual experiences that would be a great date for two people that are in a budding romantic relationship. And so you're kind of skipping ahead to what this Augmented reality technology may fit into a relationship not in the context of dating but just in the sort of the day-to-day But I think that this domain of human experience of romantic partnerships.
[00:07:51.649] Adam Cosco: I think we're gonna start to see at some point People going on dates in VR, you know, we've certainly seen that process It'll be like a screening process for like, you know Like tinder will just open up and then she'll be there and then she'll just leave immediately She sees your apartment It'll be as brutal as it is right now, yeah. It's funny, it almost applies to the casting process just in a sense that the number one thing I was thinking a lot when I was putting this together and thinking of the cast is both from casting the female lead, Mariana, and the male lead who's also named Adam. It was just like, I was asking myself, would I date this guy? Would I date this girl? Like, because I've seen a lot of things that try and, not just VR, just like where it's like romantic like things, and it's just like, if you don't like one of them, like it's just like such a killer to the movie. If you're like, I don't see what she sees in this guy. We had a lot of guys come in and audition. I was like, this guy is such a douche. I hate him. And I needed it to be on both ends because I knew it was going to be both their POVs. It was especially important to me that both sexes understood the same sex, what the attraction they saw in each other. I don't know, I was really picky about it. I needed to like them both. Some people gloss that over, I think.
[00:09:08.715] Kent Bye: Yeah, and I think that comes through in your piece is that, you know, they have a certain level of chemistry and some of it's sort of constructed in the sense of, you know, the theme of what you're writing in terms of the augmentations that are happening. But to me, I think the other really interesting thing that you're starting to explore here is artificial intelligence. these assistants that are quantifying our lives in certain ways and perhaps giving us things that we think that we want. So maybe you could talk a bit about, you know, how you're starting to also weave the future of AI into, you know, where this is all going.
[00:09:41.053] Adam Cosco: Yeah, I mean in terms of the AI elements like that, just the personification of it was like something that came later in the game in the script, like the idea of making it like like a person that you see and I think that like from my perspective I just looked at it like I was like I had seen a lot of versions that were like the chiseled glossy like man or woman like and for some reason I just like in in this particular movie I viewed it as like a best friends like that like in to be honest it was the friend-zoned guy that's how I viewed it as like as kind of like like it's the guy that you'd like the girl goes like oh I'm seeing this guy and he's all like this but like what's your advice on this you know and like I'm not saying I haven't been that guy before, I'm just saying, like, I just saw it as, like, that, like, that kind of, like, the shoulder that you need to cry on kind of thing. But, like, in terms of, like, the grander scheme of, like, AI, I don't know, like, I think that it's the linchpin to a lot of this technology in general, and I don't know how quickly it's going to advance. I think we're going to make a lot of advancements in other respects in regards to this new technology. AI seems like, and maybe there's some people out there that are like, oh, no, this guy doesn't know. we've got it all figured out, but it just seems that, like, especially if it's in its beta stage, it may be at its scariest. You know what I mean? Like, if it's not perfect and it's saying, we think you want this. I mean, I used to say forever that even before it became common knowledge that the Facebook, like, you know, you would get advertisements for things, and then, I don't even know if you've noticed this, but sometimes when you're talking about things, you get advertisements for it. So, like, to me, that's proof that they're already somehow monitoring the audio of what you're saying, and it's like, this guy said he was interested in this video game, and it's popping up already, you know? Like, it seems to be already there in a very, like, insidious way, but, like, I don't know.
[00:11:28.018] Kent Bye: Yeah, and I think I've been covering on the Voices of VR podcast issues of privacy and, you know, how much information we're willing to give over to our AI. And I think, you know, the movie Her, I think, is a lot of parallels in terms of AI assistance, but in that movie it's more of a direct relationship between the AI. But I think that maybe you could talk a bit about if you drew any inspiration from Her or other sci-fi films.
[00:11:49.733] Adam Cosco: Yeah, I mean, I loved her. Like, I mean, I think that it was a combination of personal experiences, Black Mirror, and then her, and then... I don't know. The montage in Gone Girl I was riffing on a lot, the kind of deterioration of a relationship. There's some stuff in Gone Girl that shows that really well. And there's also a movie called Scenes from a Marriage, which is a Bergman movie, which is a five-hour deterioration of a marriage kind of thing. And I tend to drift into making relationship movies. A lot of people tell me I should just stop. But yeah, those are the main ones. This one wasn't one of those ones where I could point to Because there was a lot of personal experience stuff that I was drawing from as well.
[00:12:35.853] Kent Bye: So why do you think you are drawn to relationship movies? Is this drawing from your own personal life? Or what is it that you think is so compelling about it?
[00:12:43.783] Adam Cosco: I don't know, from a very young age, I just found women to be more fascinating than men. I was like, I understand men, because I'd be like, I know what this guy's thinking, you know what I mean? But women, I'm like, wow, there's this mystery going on. I don't understand what's going on here. I always say to people that I would much rather have a daughter than have a son, because if I had a son, I'd be like, I know exactly what he's doing at 12. I know why the sheets are all crusty. I get it. It's obvious, but if I had a daughter, be tapped into a secret of like, oh, that's what was going on. You know what I mean? So for me, it's like just exploring this thing of little layers of like, I don't know, it's just the, not battle, but the intersection of the sexes and how they operate and how women communicate completely differently than men, like overt communication versus covert communication. For some reason, I think I don't have the answers to the questions, so that's why I want to make movies about it. I get a little tidbit each time.
[00:13:45.757] Kent Bye: I think at the core of this piece is about emotional presence, so maybe your own personal journey of how to cultivate a sense of emotional presence in your own life.
[00:13:53.646] Adam Cosco: I mean, absolutely. That's exactly cutting to the issue. That's the thing. Oftentimes, you make something, and then you look back, and you think you know what it's about while you're making it. And then six months later, you go back, and you look at it, and you go, ugh. It's like you perform Inception on yourself a little bit. That's a lot of times what it's like. I mean, I'm pretty sure that's literally what the movie Inception is kind of about, catharsis of the mind. And other people are along the journey, and then it affects them as well as you kind of thing. Yeah.
[00:14:23.785] Kent Bye: Yeah, and because this is your fourth piece, it has a level of style and polish that I don't see in a lot of first-time, you know, pieces. So it's clear that you've iterated and experimented with the medium a fair amount. And so, to me, I feel like some of the unique affordances of VR, and this piece specifically, is that you have a level of intimacy in some of these scenes that you may be lost within 2D in watching this. And so I'm curious to hear your perspective of why you think this piece works in VR perhaps better than it would in 2D.
[00:14:54.884] Adam Cosco: You know, truthfully, the other three, and I've said this before, like, the other three pieces I made were not written for VR. I adapted them in the same way that you adapt, like, it's like the job as director is now, I have this piece of material, how can I make it great in VR? So this is the first piece I wrote entirely for VR, and to me it was like, I was thinking about, like, just the idea of the scary thought of, how we view each other like just that notion of like this is what it looks like when you look at me and this is what it looks like when I look at you and like how the notion of how who knows what happens in between us like in between here like if there's something lost in communication each time and you think it's one way and it's and so the idea of like the putting people in the gaze in selective moments and kind of like tapping into that idea of like You think you understand everything, but you have to remember that the world is filtered through your eyes. They're only portals to understanding, and then that is also filtered through your brain. So that whole idea of perception, it struck me as a more... Rather than just putting you in the head of a character to give you a thrilling experience, which I love as well in VR, just that idea of making you question a level, like how much can you trust your own senses? It felt appropriate in that sense, in a subtle way. I still think it would work as a 2D film, but I just thought this one was catered to it in my own unique little subtle way.
[00:16:21.367] Kent Bye: It's interesting, as you were saying that, it made me sort of realize something about some specific scenes that you had. So most of it is from third-person perspective, but in the first-person perspective scenes that you have, you have the actors kind of staring directly into the camera, which actually never really happens when you're talking to people. I'm just curious if that was sort of an artifact of not really having a person's face there to be able to act with or to have kind of like the subtle nuances of, you know, turning away and eye contact. You know, there was something that in hindsight felt uncanny, but in the moment it felt like, oh wow, this is weird and I couldn't put a finger on it. But I think it's a little bit of like the uncanniness of the eye contact would have been different had that been an actual scene that they may have been Looking away more because you know in the actual shooting of it.
[00:17:07.125] Adam Cosco: You're they're talking into a camera rather than a person well actually Tobias Chen Developed a camera system for the majority of the movie was shot on black magic mini i4s the third-person shots that you mentioned But the helmet shots actually allowed the actor to be in there, so they were performing with each other. So they were looking directly into each other's eyes. It's similar to, like, Errol Morris, the documentarian, develops, like, an interview system that allows him to, through a video monitor, look right at the interview subject. But on a narrative level, it was pretty much Silence of the Lambs. Silence of the Lambs has tons of direct POV stuff in it, like all of Clarice and Hannibal's interactions with each other. start over the shoulder, and then by the time it builds to the famous story that she tells about the lambs being taken away for the spring slaughter, we're directly on her and directly on him, and that scene has the underpinning of psychoanalysis, kind of like, bear your soul for me, I need you to bear your soul for me. Like, I always loved Science of the Lambs, but when I became more, like, attuned to, like, wow, like, that's crazy that those scenes are shot that way. Like, I think if you even remember them, you're like, oh, yeah, like, but you don't realize it's direct POV kind of stuff. So that, for me, was, like, the main thing, was, like, I love that sequence in Science of the Lambs. Probably one of the best things ever, yeah.
[00:18:28.273] Kent Bye: Maybe it's just because I'm not used to seeing that. Do filmmakers in 2D kind of avoid doing that?
[00:18:34.733] Adam Cosco: Well, it's weird. It's almost about the definition of POV, I think. Like, for example, I had another producer that worked with me a while ago. His name's Matisse Toll, and he produced my first VR film. And he said Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind is about 40% POV. And I watched it again, and it could be argued that that's true. Just from the standpoint that, like, the concept of remembering something, the concept of, like, even if there's a rough dirty over the shoulder, on Jim Carrey and he's like remembering something that's technically a POV because it's like all about perception and memory so the question of the directness of the eye contact that's unique that you that is usually different like it's not usually that direct but the question of like just like POV in general in movies There's a lot of very, very famous movies, like Eight and a Half, Eternal Sunshine, that people don't talk enough about how those are tons of POV in those movies. There's tons of it. You can even argue that Elements of Goodfellas, which is the nature of this is what it feels like to walk in with him, is technically POV, because you're having the experience with him. So I don't know. It's about the definition of true, actual POV, or the experience of it kind of thing.
[00:19:49.185] Kent Bye: Are there any other films or filmmakers that you look to for inspiration for what might translate well into kind of an experiential VR narrative?
[00:19:58.028] Adam Cosco: I mean, obviously in terms of, like, I think that in terms of, like, VR, like, Gaspar Noy with, like, Enter the Void, and Enter the Void is a movie that just wouldn't, like, if it was made in VR, would be, like, it probably would have been even more well-received because it practically is a VR film, but it's all the people that I just have always loved, like, there's no one in particular that I can say they tap into exactly they're perfect for this kind of thing. For me, it's always been David Lynch and David Fincher, Spielberg and stuff like that. And I think it's sequences within movies that are like, that's it right there. But I can't point to anyone that's like, oh, he's already doing it in 2D film, or she's already doing it in 2D film, and it's just a matter of translating it kind of thing.
[00:20:51.367] Kent Bye: Yeah. So what do you want to experience in VR?
[00:20:56.130] Adam Cosco: I don't know. I'm like a big... I'm a big... The stories I want to tell are just, like, morality tales, and I like the idea of... I like the idea of, like, I can't purport to be a Star Trek fan, because then some real Star Trek fan will stop by and be like this, but I do love the idea that, like, Star Trek was able to comment on, like, moral dilemmas before they even really occurred in society. And so it was saying, when this happens, like, we have to come up with a game plan for how we're going to handle these things, you know? and I'm drawn to like small stories that can kind of like explore that especially as it relates to all this technology that like we're literally surrounded by right now like just exploring like what it's all gonna mean and how we're gonna interact with it and like it's weird because I find myself in a place where I have a lot of ideas for AR and VR and high-end, like, super futuristic things, right? And I don't know right now if I actually just want to make that crazy thing or just make a movie that's about that crazy thing. I think I'd be satisfied if I just made the movie and then someone else did the actual thing, but like, I don't know. I'm torn. I'm like, should I do this super crazy experimental new age video game, or should I just make a movie about that future where that exists? So I'm kind of like, I don't know. I'm interested in both those things. Hopefully I land in the right place.
[00:22:17.070] Kent Bye: Awesome. And finally, what do you think is the ultimate potential of virtual reality, and what it might be able to enable?
[00:22:25.657] Adam Cosco: I mean I hate for this to sound like such a business-minded answer but like I think that just as it relates to the film market like film is so oversaturated right now like I saw when I saw Mad Max Fury Road which I loved I thought it was amazing but I had this feeling of like what can we do more than this like like this is so this is like the accomplishment of like 30 years of dreaming about this world and he's executing it with flawlessness and you're just looking at it and it's just this like feeling of like I've seen like we've reached it's not an apex 2d film will always be around it has a place but there's just a need to challenge ourselves like as like from a craftsmanship standpoint that is like, like that's what's really exciting for me is just the challenge of like, we've really gotten really far with this. Like you can open up Vimeo and see so many talented people like from all around the world that are doing amazing. They make stuff that aesthetically like rivals like the stuff that came out in theaters 10 years before. And so it feels like over saturation to me. And so like breaking into a new medium is like, I don't know, it just feels like we need to innovate within the narrow confines that exist right now and then build upon it. So for me it's all just about craftsmanship and I don't know, in terms of the ultimate experience, I don't know. Do you have a thought there? I mean, I have a lot of weird thoughts. I ultimately think that, like, I think that you were talking about AI earlier, right? And AI is going to be super important, right? But I think that people aren't putting enough stock in the idea that, like, the example I use is that, like, if you put on a VR headset, and you wake up in a hotel room, and you find a dead body there, and it seems that you murdered this woman, let's say, right? And I wake up, and my VR headset, I put mine on, and I'm a detective, and I'm, like, supposed to solve this crime, right? I don't think people put enough stock in that idea that, like, me knowing what my role is in the game and you knowing what your role is, the way that we naturally would interact with each other, like, you having your real personality and me having my real personality, I think there's something like that's the kind of thing that I think would be really transformative where it's real people all the time, but within a storytelling confine. Like some sort of thing where it's like you know you have a primary function, but where you go along the path is kind of going to be dependent on your personality. And so I'm interested in that kind of idea, and I don't know, maybe something will come of that. Maybe someone will steal that.
[00:25:04.502] Kent Bye: I don't know. Awesome. Anything else left unsaid you'd like to say?
[00:25:08.964] Adam Cosco: No, man. That was awesome. I feel great about this. Yeah.
[00:25:11.405] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
[00:25:12.405] Adam Cosco: Yeah. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Yeah.
[00:25:15.206] Kent Bye: So that was Adam Kosko. He is the director of Rose Colored, which was premiering at VRLA and has just been released this past weekend and is available. You should definitely go check it out. I hope that you've watched it by now instead of listening to it and then go watch it. But if you haven't watched it, definitely go watch it. The thing that I really love about it is just the use of technology into this science fiction future. I've just been hearing a lot more about the role of science fiction in terms of helping create potential futures that are possible. It takes the fiction authors to write these types of stories such that we can make the decisions today in order to actually create the future that we want. And I love this genre of narrative. And I think it's actually gonna become so much more important because there's just so many morality questions as we have more and more access to these artificial intelligence and augmented reality and virtual reality, all these immersive technologies and how they can help us either become more human or disconnect us from our humanity and disconnected from each other and the world around us. So I have a number of different takeaways about this interview as well. First of all, I think at the heart of it is this idea of emotional presence and You know, we talk about the different levels of presence when it comes to virtual reality experiences where you feel completely bodied, you have this sense of a virtual body ownership illusion, or you have an avatar first person perspective, which came up a lot in this piece in terms of recreating that feeling of having memories and the role of that in different films. We have active presence where you have some degree of agency and interactivity and control over your life in a certain way. You have the social and mental presence so that you feel connected to both be challenged by your mind and make it interesting for you, but also feel connected to other people and social situations. And the emotional presence is that degree to which that you're able to be fully connected to what's happening within your emotional realm and to be aware of it, but also be fully present emotionally and not dissociated and disconnected. And I feel like a lot of technology these days are very much into that air element, which is like this abstracted escapist disconnected from your body. You can look on your phone and just completely tune out. And it's that level of emotional presence that I think is a key part of maintaining relationships. And as we move into this world that has more and more technology, that degree to which you can maintain emotional presence and relationship, I think is going to be Continually more and more strained. I think this film rose-colored explores that in a way that I just think is just super fascinating Like what does it mean to augment your partner in real life to have this kind of fantasy world? constructed in a way that you're receiving a completely different narrative than what is actually happening in reality and This feels like some sort of dystopian future that I personally would not want to be in but to a certain degree I could definitely see why some people may want to live in that type of constructed matrix, which is like this I think there's this larger issue within technology that it's developed in order to kind of trigger our fixed action patterns and it creates these habits such that it almost makes it feel like that's architected by people who are designing the same systems of gambling and addiction such that they just want to keep you kind of hooked in and locked in. And there's a potential future of technology when it comes to these either virtual or augmented realities technologies that fit into those same fixed action patterns of really just kind of hacking our mind in order to give it the most dopamine at any given moment. whether that means you're taking what's happening in real life and altering and augmenting it into this virtual world that is just feeding you in this way that is avoiding you from having suffering. It reminds me of this sci-fi novel that Robin Honecke recommended called Lydia Mazes, and she says that part of the theme of that book is that it's looking at the role of human suffering in terms of making us feel that we're connected to this reality. If we create this artificial world that we don't have any degree of suffering or growth, then it could create this potential where people do want to kind of just completely escape into this fantasy land where they don't have to actually face some of these hard truths about reality. Now, I personally think that that's going to be a potential future as well as a desire to create these types of fantasy worlds. But that at the end of the day, it's that being able to be completely emotionally present to whatever is arising. It can actually make you more fully connected to yourself, to each other, as well as to the larger world. Because if we create these abstracted escapist fantasy worlds that we're not actually being connected with our body into this earth, then there's only so long that we could sustain something like that. So I highly recommend you go check out rose colored I really enjoyed it and I really hope that if you've listened to this far that you've at least considered Stopping to go listen to it. And but if you haven't watched it yet go watch it now because I think it's not only a great story But also it's from a filmmaker Adam Kosko who because this is like fourth piece there's a certain level of polish and maturity that I see in his process of creating the film and So it's interesting to me to see that and how he's using the immersiveness of the VR, the spatial qualities, as well as thinking about future interfaces of what type of interactions we may have in the future with these new augmented reality technologies. So that's all that I have for today. I just wanted to thank you for listening to the Voices of VR podcast. And if you enjoy the podcast, there's a couple of things that you can do to help out. Number one, just spread the word. Tell your friends, especially with this episode, I think would be particularly well suited for anybody that's doing writing or acting or film producing, people from Hollywood. And this is a great piece to have them watch to see what's possible with immersive storytelling. And, you know, the other thing is that you could become a donor to my Patreon. This is a podcast that is supported by you, the listeners, solely. And this podcast is very similar to the ideas that I was talking about, this idea that science fiction writers can actually help create the future that they want to live in. A lot of what I do with this podcast here is trying to share information and knowledge out to the wider VR community to talk about these potential futures and the futures that I want to see happen. So if you want to help create the future that you want to see in VR, then donate today. Go to patreon.com slash Voices of VR and send me a dollar a month, $5 a month, whatever you can afford will help this podcast continue and that you could help create the future that we all want. Go do it. All right. That's it. I, you know, today I didn't do the podcast at the beginning, so I just have to do the hard sell here at the end. Donate today at patreon.com slash voices of VR. Thanks for listening.
