Greg Howes is the founder and CEO of the high-tech building company IDEAbuilder, and he’s on a mission to disrupt the $8.5 trillion annual building industry using immersive technologies to bridge design & fabrication directly with consumer demand. He uses computer-aided manufacturing and robotics to fabricate buildings, and he’s been investigating how AR, VR, and MR can help to revolutionize the process of communicating ideas around space. Greg predicts that the combination of computer-aided manufacturing with immersive technologies has the potential to more directly connect the supply and demand of manufacturing resulting in a trend towards more customization and personalization of all types of products and services.
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For a number of years now, Greg has been investigating how immersive technologies were going to change the construction business through his company IDEAbuilder. The building industry lives and breathes 3D data, and there are a lot of inefficient interoperability file issues that require designers to move back and forth between 2D and 3D data.
He’s hoping that as design and manufacturing processes increasing become more automated and digitized that there will be a more seamless way to go directly from an immersive VR experience directly to a computer-aided manufacturing process. He imagines that it’d be possible to get dynamic updates on the cost to manufacture an object based upon customizations that were made within an interactive 3D environment.
He says that the immersive technologies of AR, VR and MR all represent the most intuitive and efficient away to share design ideas about space. There are an infinite number of use cases, but building them out is going to be the real challenge. He expects that there will be a lot of demand-driven innovation from consumers once they’re able to directly participate within the design process.
In the end, he sees that these immersive technologies will enable faster, better, cheaper physical and digital products and services that are personalized and highly customized.
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Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.452] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast.
[00:00:12.134] Greg Howes: I'm Greg Haus. I'm with a small company called IdeaBuilder. And what we're doing in VR, we've been in this space actually for a few years. We're looking at VR, AR, MR, mixed reality technologies, how we can associate that with making. the manufacturing, in our specific case, of real buildings. We work with 3D data for manufacturing, robotics, computer-aided manufacturing, so immersive technologies enable a new front-end for user interaction with the data, both for professionals in an industry as well as consumers. So I see immersive tech as opening and democratizing many forms of manufacturing.
[00:00:51.482] Kent Bye: Great, and so are you talking about building buildings or building objects, or what is it that you're actually constructing?
[00:00:57.606] Greg Howes: We're actually constructing real-world buildings, and what we do is fabricate a kit of parts using computer-aided manufacturing and robotics. We're doing that now in a factory in northwest Portland. Our particular focus is fabricating timber. And there's a lot going on actually, probably the most now in Oregon. There are 14 tall timber structures underway in some form right now. There's even discussion of a 20-story timber tower in Portland, which would be the tallest in the world. And what we're doing is doing a lot of the 3D CAD CAM modeling, so beyond computer-aided design, where we're literally building and modeling the building component by component, wood and steel. And then that data is sent to computer-aided manufacturing, CNC machines, and then those kits of parts are assembled on site.
[00:01:51.277] Kent Bye: And so yeah, maybe you could talk a bit about the evolution of this company, of what you're doing, and then how these immersive technologies are impacting or changing what you've been doing.
[00:02:02.233] Greg Howes: Computer-aided manufacturing in, let's call it construction, is not new. Globally, it's an $8.5 trillion industry. And a few percentage of the industry, a few percentage points are completely digitized, even using some lights-out factories and a lot of CNC, computer-aided manufacturing and robotics. But a few percentage in an $8.5 trillion industry is hundreds of billions of dollars. And that sector of the industry, working in concrete, steel, timber and new materials, essentially not only does the design in 3D, they're creating machine tool paths to tell the machines how to manufacture each component. So it's extremely detailed, extremely accurate design at a machine level. That's extremely advanced, not only in other industries, let's say aerospace and automotive. That's progressing, connecting digitized design with digitized making. And we're just trying to better integrate where that's happening in the building industry.
[00:03:08.216] Kent Bye: And so yeah, maybe you can tell me a bit more specifically about how either virtual reality or augmented reality is impacting what you're doing.
[00:03:16.533] Greg Howes: It's only beginning. We're in very early days. Most of what I'm seeing in VR is still entertainment and gaming related, which is wonderful. There'll be a lot of adoption. But since we live and breathe 3D data all day long for the actual manufacturing, not just the design, we're looking at essentially authoring tools and or gaming platforms. as a let's call it a platform or a user experience where we can port our 3D data and make it interactive both for professionals and for consumers. Professionals right now the hardware and software isn't robust enough to support even cloud-based local workstation CAD authoring applications. But the industry is rapidly migrating that way. So we and others are only exploring using VR to provide an immersive experience. But can we also provide actual customization and design tools within an immersive environment? It's early days. We don't know how quickly that will progress.
[00:04:19.280] Kent Bye: Yeah, so maybe you could detail for me a little bit more in terms of the specific problem that you think that these immersive technologies, from your own perspective of what you're working on, what you're trying to solve with it,
[00:04:31.245] Greg Howes: It's standards and data, what the industry don't need. Essentially there's trillions of files, of 3D files, that are used for CAD and design. But how the industry currently operates, let's call it the content path, to move that 3D data into a manufacturing environment is extremely inefficient. It's 3D data back to 2D data back to 3D data, recreating the 3D data, using the original model as a reference model, then recreating it again. Every industry, I think, has vast room for improvement, but there's too many complexities involved because design, marketing, engineering, and manufacturing too often don't have data which is interoperable. It's a similar problem. We can look over how to move that in an immersive environment. You're going to move CAD data into Unity. You're going to move CAD data into Unreal. You're going to code directly to WebGL. So you're not using any gaming authoring tool. Moving data back and forth beyond simple geometry and polygons is extremely inefficient, even within gaming itself as an industry. But once you start to look at CAD, and you're going to go take 3D data in two directions, one into a VR environment or down to a machine manufacturing level, there's nothing but inefficiency as things currently are. So those are big problems to be solved, not just by standards organizations, but by companies who, within specific industries, start to make that content path more efficient.
[00:05:59.902] Kent Bye: It seems like with industry and enterprise, there's going to be different companies in manufacturing that are going to be developing their own in-house solutions for virtual reality, how they're going to be able to use VR to solve their own problems, and then there's going to be some companies that are trying to produce some products so that they could generalize their solution to be able to sell to other companies in that same industry. For IdeoBuilder, what is it that you're going to be showing here at CVR at the Seattle VR Expo? But also, is it something that you're just kind of sharing with the world how you're using it internally? Or are you actually trying to productize something?
[00:06:34.875] Greg Howes: Both. These are such massive problems we're trying to solve. We use a lot of CAD CAM 3D data for our own manufacturing and we're bringing out examples and demos into VR environments where people can interact with a subset of the geometry and the customization that we offer. And we want to show proofs of concepts, and we already are within VR environments, where people can not only experience one of our buildings, but we want to show people how that's tied into actual manufacturing data. Because ultimately, where we want to go is from a VR or 3D environment directly to computer-aided manufacturing. So whether you're a professional designer, engineer, or you're a consumer looking at a car or a building, you can not only explore it, customize it, and configure it, you can begin to get real-time pricing and performance data back as you do that customization. And therein I see the massive democratization and openness. And in my case, since there's so many different kinds of buildings, and building is very different based on geography, we are showing proofs of concepts of what we're doing But I think there is room in the market for millions of competitors, and I hope they arise quickly as all of these manufacturing design gets digitized.
[00:08:00.586] Kent Bye: And you're also going to be speaking on a panel here at CVR, talking about VR and enterprise, and what are some of the main points that you want to give to this crowd here?
[00:08:09.587] Greg Howes: Two, one, how much potential there is. I really think the total addressable market is literally in the tens of trillions of dollars, but I don't like to separate out VR, AR, or MR as separate industries. I think they will evolve as separate industries. But as those technologies are integrated into manufacturing processes, the opportunities are vast both for entrepreneurs as well as large existing companies. An example on my enterprise VR panel today, we have Tim Scanlon, who's one of the heads of manufacturing for Autodesk. And with all of Autodesk products, their big effort to essentially connect digitized design with digitized manufacturing in many industries, if not most industries, that topic will be covered. And then as one use case example, we have Paul Davies from Boeing. As Boeing is exploring, where does VR and AR make sense for data and for Boeing? And so he'll be addressing where they see current opportunities and current challenges. So there's so many, it's so big, but I think we all share an optimism that the technology is getting so good and there are an infinite number of use cases that make sense intuitively, but building them out is the hard part.
[00:09:30.430] Kent Bye: Yeah, and I see that virtual reality is on the leading edge of hitting the consumer market first, and then AR is trailing back anywhere from a year or two years before the consumer versions of AR are going to be hitting the market. And also at some point, I do see that those augmented reality and virtual reality are going to fuse into kind of a mixed reality. But at this point, what do you see as kind of the different use cases and strengths and weaknesses when it comes to what you see as the best use case for VR, the best case for AR?
[00:10:02.160] Greg Howes: I'm obviously biased as a builder and a manufacturer, but I think there are intuitive ways to convey data for a user to experience data. Even working in construction for decades, even people who, for example, many architects, it's hard to communicate and share a design idea, both with another architect or an engineer or a builder. It's riddled with inefficiency, that sharing of data and ideas. And I think these immersive technologies are so good and the most intuitive and efficient way to share ideas. And although VR could be gratuitous in many industries, in building what you're really doing is you're sharing the idea of space. And the most efficient, intuitive way to do that is to use these immersive technologies. Whether you're just sharing a design concept, a walkthrough or a flythrough, or what has far greater potential, where the user begins to interact with the data and customize it, then it becomes exponentially more valuable, because then we as builders can connect with what consumers want, and then connect that efficiently with actually making of those products.
[00:11:17.865] Kent Bye: And so just, I guess, to ask that in another way as well, what do you see as the use case for VR, and what's the use case for AR, where they may be, you know, one is better than the other?
[00:11:29.359] Greg Howes: VR is great, except it takes you out of the world so I can bring you inside of a building, inside of a 3D city, which may or may not be accurate, or is accurate to varying degrees, is how accurate is Virtual Portland, for example, in one of the buildings we want to build. But because VR in many ways is ahead of AR or mixed reality, I think VR will get a lot of early adoptions as a more efficient way to convey data and presence. And then as that data is built in and or supported by AR or mixed reality devices, will get far bigger adoption. I'll give you this example because it's less dangerous. If I'm working in a factory or I'm looking at a building site or I'm walking around a city and I want to augment the data I have on that physical environment, I don't want to be totally taken away from it in a VR experience because it's simply dangerous to operate. So I can only do that for a few minutes and I have to remove it. As soon as I can support a mixed reality or augmented reality experience, I can wear the device potentially all day. But the technical problems that have to be solved to support that are enormous as we all know.
[00:12:44.076] Kent Bye: And so how do you see that these immersive technologies are going to revolutionize the construction industry?
[00:12:49.791] Greg Howes: I think computer-aided manufacturing already is. That's only in the early days of being adopted, and that brings vast efficiency to the industry. My biggest, I think, driver will be actually consumers themselves. I think it'll be a demand-driven innovation. Because the hundred million users who have used the Sims, for example, or the new game City Skylines, or even all the people using Minecraft, I often hear, well look, I know as an individual, I'm playing this game, I'm designing space. How come the space I design, I can't use that as a way to communicate for the space I want in my real world physical environment? How many people have played, for example, The Sims or The City Skyline, designed a house and say, there, I'm conveying what I want in my own house. Why is that completely disconnected from what the building industry actually gives to consumers? Right now, people are looking at pictures and giving very limited choice and very little information, and that's how they make the biggest purchase decision of their life, a building. So digitizing that experience, making it more intuitive, using a lot of the UX lessons we derive from gaming, is, to me, an obvious application of these immersive technologies in a many trillion dollar industry. And it needs millions of companies to deliver these services to address all of the markets. So anybody who does it, I celebrate as validating the efficiency of new technologies, even in stagnant, change-resistant industries.
[00:14:27.321] Kent Bye: And finally, what do you see as the ultimate potential of virtual reality and what it might be able to enable?
[00:14:34.104] Greg Howes: Tony Stark, Star Trek, The Matrix, you know, all of the obvious things we've seen. The build-out's going to take a very long time, but what I do think it's going to deliver is faster, better, cheaper, more customized, more personalized, products and services and those products will increasingly be both physical and digital products. Think of a Tesla car. Increasingly what we're purchasing is an experience and software and the physical product is critical, it's important. But I think it's less and less of a differentiator. I think increasingly the community, openness, connecting design, connecting demand directly with the supply for many products, including in building, will enable so many efficiencies that it will drive accelerating adoption. And now the technology, primarily driven by gaming, is evolving so quickly with so much money going into investment that there will be, I think, an explosion of adoption once the efficiencies become obvious to more people in many industries.
[00:15:43.468] Kent Bye: Okay, great. Thank you.
[00:15:45.328] Greg Howes: Thank you. Thanks for your time.
[00:15:47.169] Kent Bye: And thank you for listening. If you'd like to support the Voices of VR podcast, then please consider becoming a patron at patreon.com slash Voices of VR.
