I spoke with Alpaka, Emnyeca, Sheena_baobab, & tktk about playing live jazz in VRChat in Blue Rondo: Stratus as a part of my Raindance Immersive 2025 coverage. You can join the EMN Records VRChat Group if you’d like to check out one of their shows. See more context in the rough transcript below.
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Rough Transcript
Note that this is an automated rough transcript using WhisperX that is translating all Japanese into English
[00:00:05.458] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR Podcast. It's a podcast that looks at the structures and forms of immersive storytelling and the future of spatial computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. So continuing my coverage of Raindance Immersive 2025, today's episode is... is with the group called EMN Records. So they've been producing a number of different worlds called Blue Rondo. They had a piece last year called Blue Rondo Connective Waves, which was the winner of the best immersive music experience. They were also in competition this year with another music experience called Blue Rondo Stratus. So they're a group that is playing live jazz within virtual reality. And they're able to do that because in Japan, they have this technology called Yamaha Sync Room that allows low latency collaboration. So you can share this audio channel and everybody is within like 30 milliseconds or so of hearing whatever other people are playing, which enables them to do like really good live jazz music, which is not easy to do when you have latency on any other context within VR. So this is something that's unique that's happening within the context of the Japanese community. It sounds like it's also coming out of Korea as well, where super fast high-speed internet and these communities that have access to Yamaha Synchron integrations like Topaz streaming that is allowing them to hook everything up into VRChat so they can be in a virtual space and start to play collaboratively as a band. And so in this series of Raindance Immersive, I started to dig a little bit more into the Japanese culture in VRChat. And there's always a bit of a language barrier. And so in this conversation, I decided to air it just like raw and filtered as we're going back and forth. I think in some ways it gives you a sense of this language barrier that can happen. But I still think it's important to have these conversations just because there's lots of really fascinating things that are happening within Japanese community. And I'm just kind of experimenting with like, what's the best format? It may end up being that there's a version just as a transcript that has all the different language and it may be easier to read through than to actually listen to. But I highly recommend checking out this conversation just because I think there's a lot of really fascinating things that are happening within Japanese community. And they're having this conversation in the hopes that more people will be made aware of what's happening in their community and to come out and check out some of the different live performances that are happening. So you can join the EMN Records group on VRChat, and I'll have a link in the show notes that you can go and join in and potentially go see some of the different live jazz performances. RainDance Immersive is always great because they're curating a lot of the things that are happening across the full international spectrum of VRChat as a platform and highlighting it and making it super easy to go check out some of this different stuff. But they are available with the groups to be able to dive in and check in some of these different things. spaces and performances that are happening since they are regularly meeting up into these different spaces and this year they had like this kind of space elevator theme where you're kind of going into this futuristic place and going up this big large escalator and these themes of space travel but when you get up to the top into this room you're listening to like a live music and this year happened to have a lot more lighting effects and playing with light and seeing how the light could create these different moods whereas last year they were doing a lot more kind of audio reactive visualizations of the waveforms that gave you a live music feel where there's a lot more improv last year and yeah just having these other ways of creating like a fully rich real-time audio reactive visualizations of whatever they're playing and which was really quite stunning and amazing. And this year was also quite awe-inspiring and beautiful. Just the fact that you can go into VR and listen to some people playing some live jazz, which you don't usually get to see anywhere else. But you get a little bit of a sneak peek of what's to come with what's happening in Japan. So, recovering all that and more on today's episode of the Voices of VR podcast. So, this interview with the EMN Records team, including Alpaca, M. Yinka, Sheena Bayabab, and Tikka Tikka, happened on Friday, July 11th, 2025, on Discord as part of my Rain Dance Immersive 2025 coverage. So, with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:04:16.098] Alpaka: Maybe I can introduce myself first and then I'll pass it on to the rest of the EM Records group. So my name is Alpaca. Nice to meet everyone. So I've been active in VRChat for about three years now, been part of the music community throughout the years. I play piano myself and I'm also involved in a number of musical groups and communities within VRChat. both on the Japanese side as well as the American slash Western side as well. And at least for the past year or two, my passion has really been about connecting the international musical communities of VRChat to really spread the ability for musicians across the globe to be able to both hear as well as perform in front of an audience. That is global, which is really hard to do in real life, but it's much, much easier to do in VR. I'd like to pass it off to Amneka. Amneka-san.
[00:05:07.050] Emnyeca: Yes, of course. Hi, my name is America. Thank you so much for the interview today. I've been working as a VTuber and a V-singer for about 20 years. I've been working with a lot of people, and the music community came out naturally. which is now developing into a community called EMN Records. So, I am the founder and representative of this community. Recently, I've been putting a lot of effort into making the EMN records in VR. I'm very happy that I've received many awards and reviews in various places. After that, I've been working mainly on guitar and producing. I'm also composing. Thank you.
[00:06:24.571] Alpaka: So my name is Emneka. I am the founder of EMN Records. Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to speak as part of this podcast. I've been active as a V-singer, as a V-Tuber since 2020. I've had the pleasure of being involved in many, many different people as part of the online community that I created. and recently emn records have been placing a greater focus on performing music in vr and also staging music events in vr as well and we're extremely grateful that we've been recognized at a number of musical events including rain dance immersive as well and then recently i've been focusing on you know playing guitar as well as music production as well as composing additional music as well thank you Mr. Deketeki, please.
[00:07:08.535] tktk: First of all, thank you for this opportunity. My name is Deketeki. I usually work as a 3D artist. In VR, I play instruments. At EMD Records, I'm in charge of world production and project direction. That's about it.
[00:07:42.062] Alpaka: Hello, nice to meet you. My name is Teke Teke and thank you so much for the opportunity to speak as part of this podcast. I am a 3D artist by profession and I'm also a percussion instrumentalist as well. And normally I focus on world creation as well as in being involved in direction of various musical events within VRChat. Yoshino-san, please.
[00:08:03.754] Sheena_baobab: Hi, I'm Shina Baobab. I run a music project called Baobab Crossing. And I'm also a navigator for an organization called VR Japan Tours, or Human Records. That's it.
[00:08:18.788] Kent Bye: Great. And maybe each of you could give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into virtual reality.
[00:08:26.249] Alpaka: Sure, I can start off here as well. So again, my entry into VR has really been as a result of COVID, as I'm sure with many, many people that are out there, was spending a lot of time at home, not really having much to do. So that's really how I started exploring VR as a medium, as well as a community as well, which I'm really, really happy that I managed to find. My life would be very different if I didn't find VRChat, so very grateful for that. I've been active on VRChat since about three years ago. And initially, I would say that, you know, again, I was more treating VRChat as a game, as many people do. And, you know, I was mostly just hanging out with people. But since about two years ago, I started getting very actively involved in the music community within VRChat. And some of the communities that I was involved in involved jazz as a musical medium, which is something that, again, has a very international element to it because jazz is universal and it spans across multiple countries, nationalities, ethnicities, so on. So in that sense, through the jazz community, I also got to know EMN Records as a community as well, and being involved in some of the musical groups that are based in Japan. and that's why I ended up being involved and you know being part of musical groups and musical communities both on the US and Japan side as well and I'm really passionate myself about music since I do play the piano and I do perform occasionally not that often in VRChat but at the same time my passion is really to be able to connect the musical community internationally as I mentioned that is something that I think is really really unique in VRChat for musicians as well as music enjoyers across the world to be able to meet each other, hear each other, talk with each other, interact with each other. It's something that is very, very unique to VRChat and something that is, as far as I know, rarely exists, if ever, in any other platform that's out there. So that's really my passion, you know, which is being able to introduce incredible musicians, incredible music enjoyers across the world and having, you know, an opportunity for anyone across the world to be able to enjoy the music, you know, in VR and performed by musicians across the world as well.
[00:10:34.338] Kent Bye: And my question again was if each person could give a bit more context as to the background and their journey into virtual reality.
[00:10:41.348] Alpaka: I have a question for Mr. Kento. How did you get into VR? How did you start working in VR? What are your thoughts on that? What do you want to do? Please go ahead, Mr. Amonica.
[00:11:01.326] Emnyeca: Yes, I originally started working with 2D in Avatar, but after 2020, it became Vroid 3D, so it was the time when VTubers around me started entering VR, so I was also interested, and the first time I entered the VR chat was in December 2020, at SLT Spotlight Talks. Sobunesaki-chan is not here today, That was the first time I went to play jazz with them. After that, I did a lot of music videos on VR, such as Animezment, Hakodate no Sho, and other international events. I did a lot of music videos on VR and found out about the possibilities of jazz sessions on VR. In Japan, at the same time, we know that there is a legal problem, so we thought we'd hold a VRChat jazz jam session to solve that legal problem, and that's how EMN JAM was held. Yes, it's already been 41 times, and the community is getting bigger and bigger. At the same time, we've been getting a lot of feedback on the VR performance, and we're hoping that the VR sessions will be more popular in the future, so we're continuing our activities.
[00:12:53.562] Alpaka: So my name is Amneka. So I actually started in 2D as a VTuber and as a V singer and actually transitioned to 3D being influenced by other VTubers who were actually doing the same thing at the time. So around 2020 in December, that's where I really started performing in VR in terms of music. And I initially attended an event, a Japanese event called Spotlight Talks, also known as SLT, and performed jazz for the audience there, along with another member of EMN Records called Sabune Saki, who unfortunately wasn't able to attend today, but she's also a core member of the community as well. And from that, I started doing a lot of different things within VRChat. Initially started creating music videos as part of many online music events, but then got increasingly involved in performing music, especially jazz sessions in VR. But then I quickly ran across many issues in terms of music copyright laws, which is very strict in Japan. And one thing that I wanted to do is to want to create a community where all the members of the community can perform jazz in VR without worrying about copyright issues. And that's part of the reason why I created EMN Records or started hosting events as part of EMN Records within the VR space. recently we celebrated our 41st jazz session which we call uh the emin records hosts bi-weekly jazz sessions in vr and recently we hosted the 41st anniversary of that event which we're very excited about and really thankful that the community has been you know spread so far and then it's reached so many people not just within japan but also internationally as well and also grateful that we've been recognized on vr chat as part of room dance immersive and you know as part of other events that are out there And we'd really like to continue spreading, you know, the word of being able to perform music in VR moving forward.
[00:14:36.545] Emnyeca: Thank you very much. All right.
[00:14:41.309] tktk: Take it, take it. That's how I got into VR. I had a VR event called V-CAT at a place I had nothing to do with. I joined the event for the first time. I had an interest in 3D, so I made an avatar and costume. That's how I first started. After that, I was interested in it for a while. I heard from a friend that I was doing a music event, and when I got interested, I got into it. There was a group of three people who played jazz on VRChat. There was an event for the three of us, Saki-san, Saki-san, and Ikata-san. We found out that they were playing jazz on VRChat. After that, I started talking to Sobinari Saki and Raktor. After that, we started playing together, and we started playing together again. We talked about where we wanted to do the session together, and I said I'd make it. That's how I started making a place called Bluelond. Then, I met Mr. Amonica, and we agreed to work together on the E-MNI.
[00:16:26.035] Alpaka: Hi, so my name is Teke Teke. Nice to meet you all. So in terms of how I initially started off in VR, my journey in VR, I actually participated in the first ever event for VCAT, which is a very big kind of music, or not music, it's actually a virtual online festival that, you know, it's mostly based in Japan, but increasingly international. And that's where I initially started getting involved in VRChat, where at the start, I was mostly involved in creating avatars and outfits in VR as a 3D modeler. But after a while, after playing VRChat for a while, out of interest, I learned that there's actually an active music community within VR, a lot of music events being hosted. And then once I started attending those events, I got really interested. So after getting, especially after getting involved and introduced to a group called Jazz in VRC, composed of Saki Sobune, which I spoke about earlier, as well as the pianist Lacto Ice, as well as the drummer Yuki Hata, I learned that there is an active jazz scene in VR, and it really enlightened me to what's possible in terms of jazz performance in VR. So after that, I started talking with all the community members, started performing percussion myself, and ended up working on creating venues in worlds to be able to perform live jazz music in VR. So that's how Blue Rondo came about, and that's how I also got to know Emneka as well. Hi. All right, Sheena?
[00:17:48.389] Sheena_baobab: I try to speak in English. When COVID prevented real world singing, a friend introduced me to Sync Room, Yamaha online ensemble software, where others who led me to VR and performing with those I met in VRC became a kind of natural progression. And two years ago, when I first performed at Rain Dance Immersive, I was able to share live online performances with a large international audience. Since then, introducing Japanese online ensemble performances to global audiences has become my real life's work. Then EMN Records collaborated and supported me in this endeavor. And our VR base is, my VR base is World Rondo.
[00:18:46.826] Kent Bye: That's it. Nice. Yeah, I really enjoyed the performances both two years ago as well as this year. And I did have a technical question in terms of how to even play jazz in VR live because it sounds like that Yamaha has the Sync Room application that enables people to have essentially low latency, the ability to play together collaboratively. And I'm just curious how that is synced up, if that's just an application on your phone that people are using or if it's somehow wired in through VRChat. And yeah, just love to hear a little bit more elaboration for how the Yamaha Sync Room is enabling this type of real-time collaborative jazz playing and VRChat.
[00:19:32.597] Alpaka: I have a technical question for you. How do you play jazz live on VR? You use a software called Yamaha Sync Room. How exactly do you play it? Please go ahead, America. I use Yamaha Sync Room.
[00:19:56.818] Emnyeca: In Japan, the latency is usually between 10ms and 30ms, so it's a very rare software in the world that allows you to play together without any problems. So how do we play in VR? We play in VRChat and Syncroom at the same time. Thank you very much.
[00:20:50.419] Alpaka: So in terms of, yes, we use a software called Yamaha Synchron, which is essentially an online jamming software that Yamaha created for musicians remote to be able to jam online with low latency. So we're very, very grateful to Yamaha for providing this software to be able to do what we do. In Japan, typically, the latency will be between 10 to 30 milliseconds. So it's actually quite possible to jam online without too much latency. And we do recognize that this is something that we're blessed with. You know, it's not something that is common worldwide. But in Japan, it definitely does become possible. So in terms of how we perform live in VR, typically we open up VRChat. We also open up Syncroom and connect the Syncroom audio output to the VRChat mic input and or VRCDN or Topaz or other streaming software that we use. And that's how we end up performing in VR. So yeah, like in terms of other things, you know, we go into VRChat, we put on a headset, we log into VRChat. We oftentimes, a lot of us do use motion tracking to be able to perform in VR, to be able to give more of a sense of immersiveness when it comes to performing music as opposed to just standing still. So that's also something else that we do as well.
[00:22:04.130] Kent Bye: Hmm. Yeah, and there was a mention of how the copyright laws are really strict. And so I'm curious, how does the formation of EMN records help to overcome or bypass or make it easier for live performance of some of this music in VR?
[00:22:21.397] Alpaka: Right. Right. Right.
[00:22:39.378] Emnyeca: In 2021, JASRAC, the largest band in Japan, will be holding a concert in Japan. We announced that it would be the same as the live stream, but with a different status. That means that the music will be played in VR, which will of course be a problem for music rights. As for other platforms, such as domestic clusters, for example, the cluster itself has a contract with JASRAC, and it has exceeded its rights. The same goes for YouTube. In the case of VRChat, we don't have a contract with JazzRack, so we can't cover the original music, especially jazz, which is the main music style and music genre. When we did that with VRChat, there was a financial problem. Of course, there are also people in the gray zone who are working in the underground, but we don't have anything to say about those people. However, we want to do it firmly in white, so we, EMN Records, have a joint contract with JUSRAC, So I made a contract with VR that I don't have to play an original jazz song. Once a year, I put together a list of all the songs I've played, and then I submit it to Jazzlack. That way, the right to use it will go to the copyright company.
[00:25:01.247] Alpaka: So in terms of copyright issues, so in 2021, the largest music copyright organization in Japan called Jazz Rec determined that broadcasting music in VR or performing live music in VR will effectively be treated the same as online streaming, you know, on any other platform. So, for example, in terms of other online platforms in Japan, there is the example of Cluster, which is kind of like VRChat in Japan, a VR platform that is Japan-based. And they actually have a holistic agreement with JazzRec to allow for copyrighted music to be performed on that platform. But VRChat, being a more Western-based platform, doesn't have such a similar agreement with JazzRec, which introduces complications. It does make it difficult. Because for jazz, as you probably know, typically we play jazz standards, existing jazz music compositions, which might be under copyright, depending on when it was composed. So fundamentally, it creates various issues in terms of being able to play these existing songs in VR from a legal perspective. We do recognize that there are people, of course, online who do ignore these copyright issues and perform whatever song that they want. And that's something that we don't judge. Whatever they want to do, they can keep on doing. But at least for us, we really wanted to do the right thing and stay on the right side of the law and make sure that we're able to support musicians within the VR community to be able to perform music online without having to worry about copyright issues or having to break the law. That's part of what EMN Records does. And once a year, we report to Jazz Rec in terms of all the lists of songs that were performed as part of EMN in VR over the past year. And we also pay the associated fees alongside it. So we are helping the music community be able to perform jazz songs in VR without having to worry about these issues.
[00:26:45.754] Kent Bye: Nice. Okay. So great to hear. And I guess, when was the very first performance of Blue Rondo? Was it at like an SLT night performance? Or maybe just give a little bit more story around how this team of performers came together to start making music and building worlds and doing performances?
[00:27:07.089] Alpaka: This question is related to both EMN Records and Blue Rondo. First of all, I'd like to ask you about EMN Records. Specifically, how did you start playing online on the internet and in VR? Specifically, how did you use Blue Rondo to create the world and how did you use it? So, Mr. Tekitek, please go ahead.
[00:27:34.524] Emnyeca: What kind of question was the first one?
[00:27:38.066] Alpaka: Basically, there is a question about Blue Rondo. It includes the world of Blue Rondo as a whole, including the world of Lounge, so the question is how you started using the world, what kind of sessions you did, and how it evolved. Can I talk about the EMN Jam? Yes, please. I see.
[00:28:01.275] Emnyeca: As Deketeki-san introduced at the beginning, Deketeki-san wanted to create a world that could be used in Jam Session. I felt the possibility of having a jam session in VR, so I thought I'd like to do it together, so I asked Dekitek to set up a project to create the world of BlueLondon in the EMN record. And that's what I'm doing now. I was able to do it there. In jazz sessions, the presence of someone is very important. If you have that presence, the content of the performance will change. That's what jazz is all about. I think that's a very important part of VR. That's why I started YAMEN JAM. I think that's how I got people to understand me. Also, jazz music has a high standard in Japan. It's expensive to go to a store, and there are a lot of jazz musicians, so it's scary. I was surprised to learn that you can go to the world with just one click, and that you can easily experience jazz. I'm surprised that more than I know in real life, I'm more interested in the audience than I know in real life. Thank you very much. Mr. Takedaki, I don't think Mr. Kento understands that there are three worlds in Blue Rondo. Could you tell us about that? As I said earlier,
[00:30:17.293] tktk: I was the first person to create a world for jazz sessions. Then I created a place called Lounge in Bull London. This is the main venue for EMN JAM, which is held every week. It's always the main venue for jazz sessions. When I participated in the Reindance Immersive Film Festival last year, I thought it would be nice to have a more casual version of the BluLondon Lounge, so I made the BluLondon Bathroom. It's hard to explain, but there was an effect on the string, and it received the sound of each performer, and it was a mechanism to produce waveforms at each performer's place. I won the Best Music Award for my work, Connected Waves. This year, I also won the Best Music Award for my work, Connected Waves. The venue we created for that was a venue called Bluelond Stratos, where we invited Mr. Omahel, who was the director of the lighting department. Thank you very much.
[00:32:16.887] Alpaka: So from Amnika, so in terms of how Blue Rondo came about and how we ended up performing jazz sessions as part of the Blue Rondo world. So as Take Take mentioned, initially, Take Take got interested in the jazz music scene within VR. And then he said that he'll be interested in creating a world optimized for online jam sessions, which is something that I felt really attracted to. So I asked him to create the world Blue Rondo for the EMN community to be able to use for our regularly scheduled online jam sessions called EMN Jam. And part of the concept of the world is that we really want to create a world where we can feel as though the immersiveness, the sense of presence of the live performance on stage can really be felt by the audience. So that was always a theme of the world. we always feel as though you know sometimes feel so jazz is considered a genre of music that is a little hard to get into if you're not into it already to be able to listen to jazz sessions you need to go to a live house you need to kind of know the community and for someone who hadn't historically done that it might be a little hard for them to really get actively involved in the jazz music scene. But in VR, it's so much easier. It really only takes a click to be able to join the world and enjoy a jazz session. So that's something that we felt had a lot of potential to be able to increase the audience for jazz music, especially in VR. So after a while, you know, again, we did see more and more community members join and a lot of people kind of being introduced to the jazz music, not just, you know, within VR, but jazz music in general. And that's something that we really appreciate. And from Take Take a Sun, in terms of the history of the Blue Rondo world, initially, so I created the Blue Rondo Lounge world. So there's actually three Blue Rondo worlds. It's, you know, all of them are named Blue Rondo, but they're all different worlds. So I started off creating the Blue Rondo Lounge World, which again, as Emneka mentioned, was really created to be able to use for these bi-weekly live jazz sessions, event EM and jam. But last year we participated in Rain Dance Immersive, as you know. And the lounge world was originally meant really more for casual jazz sessions, not really for a formal performance or a stage performance. So we wanted to create a new world that is really more fitting in terms of a rain dance theme and being able to present the show that we want to present. So we ended up creating a new world called Blue Rondo Bathys, which is we use for connected waves, which feature the visual effect where there are lines and waves and various visuals, you know, being able to interpret the performance of each performer who's part of the live session. And we were very, very honored to receive the best live performance award last year as part of Raindance Immersive. And this year as well, we also participated in Rain Dance as well. And we created a third world called Blue Rondo Stratos, which is based on the Space Elevator theme. And we asked a friend called Uma Helsson, who helped to work with me on the lighting effects, which we really put a lot of emphasis on, because we really want to increase the immersiveness of performances in the world, as I mentioned before. And that's something that the new world, Blue Rondo Stratos, was trying to optimize for.
[00:35:21.843] Kent Bye: Nice. And Sheena, I'd love to hear a little about your journey into collaborating with Blue Rondo and starting to do live jazz singing to the VRChat community.
[00:35:31.792] Sheena_baobab: I'll say it in Japanese. The reason I joined EMN was because I listened to your album. When I first heard about jazz, I knew about it and started to cover the song called HIKARI. I had been singing jazz for a long time, so I could choose the genre of jazz. That Rain Dance Immersive, two years ago's Rain Dance Immersive, I wanted to ask foreigners to listen to it, so I asked EMN Records as a partner. I think that's the basic reason. It's difficult. I'm sorry, it's flying around. But Alpaca-san can do it.
[00:36:29.375] Alpaka: This is from Sheena. So I first joined EMN Records when actually the original story about how I ended up learning and joining EMN Records is because I heard one of Amneka's albums and ended up covering one of her original songs called Hikari. So that's how I got introduced to the EMN Records community. But in terms of jazz, I've been singing jazz for a very long time before I ever got introduced to VR. So that's something that's always with me as a musician and as a singer. But part of how I ended up getting more involved in Yemen Records as well as the community there is because for last year's Rain Dance Immersive, I really thought that there's a big opportunity to be able to showcase and introduce the Japanese music community to a broader audience internationally. And I took that in a proposal to Yemen Records and said that, hey, like, let's do something here and let's participate as part of Braindance Immersive and let's see what we can do. So that's how I ended up being involved in Yemen Records.
[00:37:27.304] Kent Bye: Yeah, and I think the connected waves world is really quite awe-inspiring in terms of seeing the different waves and visuals that were reacting to the audio input. And so just curious if the MIDI input's being fed into that, or if it's audio link. Or if there's other ways of driving those visuals. But just curious if you can elaborate on how some of those audio-reactive visuals were done in the Connected Waves performance.
[00:37:58.771] Alpaka: Connected Waves has a lot of visuals, but I'd like to ask you how you control the visuals, or how you synchronize them with the music. Mr. Takedaki, please.
[00:38:13.530] tktk: Yes, I understand. You can split the output of the Sync Room's audio input per player, and the EAW receives it, and the individual audio track data... I forgot. I think it's okay if we don't go into too much detail. Oh, I see. There's a software called TouchDesigner, and you output the output of the sound from there. From there, the sound pressure is divided into low, high, mid, and low, high, mid, and the sound pressure data is converted into midi data. From there, the MIDI data is sent to the world of Verichat, and the world inputs the MIDI data to the effects. The sound from the sync room is also sent to the world, and the MIDI input amplifies the sound waveform data.
[00:40:07.685] Alpaka: So what we do in terms of like, and it gets very technical here, so sorry if I lose some of the audience, but technically speaking, what we do is for last year's Connected Waves performance, which is a Blue Rondo Bathys world, is that we, well, it also applies to this year's Blue Rondo world as well. It's kind of like a more generic approach, but Again, we use a software called Yamaha Synchron to be able to jam with multiple musicians online. So what we do is we take that audio output from Yamaha Synchron and we're actually able to extract per channel. So per musicians, we're able to extract the audio output separately. And then we use a software called Touch Designer to convert that audio track to be able to extract the audio levels within each of the audio tracks we classify it into low medium and high levels which is then converted into midi data and fed back into the world which then drives the visuals as well right so that's part of it and also at the same time the main kind of master audio that for synchro itself which combines the audio from all the performers is also fed back into the world and is amplified and also reflected on the visual so it's really a combination of a visualization of kind of like the MIDI extraction of the audio performance of each of the performers, along with the actual audio wave output as well.
[00:41:23.569] Kent Bye: Very cool. Yeah, I know, just as an aside, Voxel K was using video streams to encode MIDI data directly into the ToneVoke performance. But I'm curious as another question in terms of when people are performing in VR, is everybody in a VR headset? Is are some people using desktop and it looks like that some people are using their natural hand tracks and other people might be playing a saxophone and have to add in as a kind of more of an avatar effect. So I'm just curious to hear a little bit about how the visual representation of people playing is done if everybody's in VR or if some people are out of VR and using desktop. And yeah, just curious to hear how you orchestrate all of the visual elements of people's embodiment within VR.
[00:42:13.488] Alpaka: Yes. I have a question. When performing on VR, is everyone wearing VR goggles and headsets? In order to capture the actual motion, are you using motion tracking or some kind of avatar effect? Specifically, how do you perform? I have a question for Shina.
[00:42:41.479] Sheena_baobab: That's right. I'm wearing an HMD. And I'm wearing a tracker. That's it. How about you, America?
[00:42:52.759] Emnyeca: Can I talk about myself? Everyone is different, so I'll talk about myself. There are a lot of things going on right now, but I'm currently wearing a Quest Pro headset and tracking using hand tracking, face tracking, and eye tracking. In addition, we also have an M-Batch, which is a guitar that was developed by a Japanese person to play in VR. It allows you to place the guitar in a nice way, and we also have a Unity package that you can use. This is also a Japanese work, but there is a manufacturer that makes a 3D model of a very realistic guitar, so I'm using it. I see. How about you, Dekitek? Me too. I use hand tracking to play on Quest 3.
[00:44:06.739] tktk: The instrument is an electronic instrument, but I sometimes use an analog instrument. In the case of this instrument, it's okay if you can take it by hand, so I think it's quite realistic.
[00:44:26.046] Alpaka: So it's really different for each performer because VR performance is such a new thing that there's no established best practice standard in terms of these are the exact steps that you need to follow to be able to perform live in VR. There just doesn't exist such a thing yet. So in that sense, all the performers have figured out their setup individually. Everyone's using different equipment, different setups, so on and so forth. So it really depends. So that being said, we can talk a bit about how we do it, at least individually. So on my end, I use a Quest 3. I use hand tracking as well. That comes along with Quest 3, along with Virtual Desktop as well. to be able to perform piano in VR. That's something that Take a Ticket Son does as well. So he also uses the Quest 3 using hand tracking. And since he is playing mostly electronic instruments in terms of percussions, hand tracking by itself is typically enough to give a good sense of immersiveness, at least for percussion instruments. So that's what he uses. Sheena uses a headset. She does have a headset on at all times whenever she's performing in VR and also uses full body tracking. I believe she uses ultimate vibe trackers as part of our setup. And in terms of Amnika, her setup has really evolved over time as she kind of refined her setup there. But right now she uses the Quest Pro headset, along with hand tracking, face tracking, eye tracking, so on and so forth, along with using 3D models that is created by Japanese 3D artists. Very, very high resolution, very good looking, along with other gimmicks that help, like, for example, Emo Badge. that help snap a VR guitar to motions, you know, that makes it look more real without having to focus so, you know, having to rely as much on full body tracking. So for a lot of us, it's a combination of the equipment that we have, along with motion tracking that we have access to, along with gimmicks of the avatar as well. So we're all trying to figure it out individually.
[00:46:21.803] Kent Bye: Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit about the experience of actually performing live in VR as compared to performing in physical reality, especially with the worlds that have last year's Connected Waves had a lot of audio reactive parts that were really beyond what you could really do in physical reality. But also this year's performance had a lot of, let's say, fog and lighting and other moody ways that the environment worked. was kind of impacting the entire world. And so just curious to hear a little bit about what it feels like for each person to perform in these virtual spaces with all of the things that could only happen in VR.
[00:47:01.451] Alpaka: I have a question. What is the difference between playing in VR and playing in real life? Specifically, even with the last year's Connected Waves and this year's Stratos, there are various sound effects, fogs, and things that depend on the environment. Specifically, please tell us about the difference between playing in VR and in real life. Let's start with Amneka. Please go ahead. Hi, how are you doing?
[00:47:34.764] Emnyeca: I've been playing a lot of real-time music. I'm mainly working on VR right now, but I'd like to talk about the differences. First of all, if you use Sync Room in VR, you can physically connect with people from all over the country. This is one of the biggest advantages. It's also fun to play with only the synchromes, but by returning the VR, there is a sense of presence that someone is there, as I said earlier, and if you track it properly depending on the person, you can make eye contact there. and you can feel the atmosphere of what you want to do. Even if it's a long-distance performance, you can have a similar experience in real life. That's the advantage. Also, I personally think that music has a lot to do with storytelling. It's about being able to express music without being trapped by physical constraints or attributes. I think that's the biggest charm of virtual music. For example, the way it looks, the type of instrument it uses, and the place it's played in. These are things that you can't really see in real life. The environment, the shape, Thank you very much. How about you, Shina?
[00:49:39.136] Sheena_baobab: It's almost the same as Omnic said. I really enjoy choosing songs to fit the event or world and tailoring my outfit, choosing my outfit and singing style accordingly. For instance, if an event requires pop music, I change the selection and request accompaniment from pop musicians. If it's a jazz event, I bring in jazz musicians. No matter what, it was enjoyable. It's really enjoyable for me.
[00:50:17.652] Alpaka: And Emneka was also saying that, you know, when we perform in VR, then, you know, like the biggest thing is that the distance doesn't matter. You know, it doesn't matter whether you're located 10 miles, 100 miles, 1,000 miles away, and we're still able to jam together, so that is incredible. And it's also fun to just jam purely in sync room, but it is different in VR in the sense that we do have physical avatars that we can take a look at, and we can actually look at each other and get things like motion cues, right, in terms of what we're trying to do, eye contact, all those cues that we would get in real life. that we're able to also get in VR. So as opposed to just purely playing in Synchron, which is audio only, it does enrich the experience in terms of performing in VR, which I think is really important. And also in VR, the possibilities are really endless. in terms of how we can perform, what we can perform, what we look like in terms of our physical presence in VR, what instrument are we playing at any given moment, what venue we're performing in, what the environment looks like. All of those are completely up to the imagination of whoever's creating the event in the world, right? As well as the performance. So in that sense, I believe that there is a huge amount of wealth of possibilities that is made possible by performing in VR as opposed to real life.
[00:51:33.208] Kent Bye: Yeah. And so with this year's performance, there was a completely different world in the sense of like, it felt like I was on a spaceship and we're going into this other world. And also there was a lot of focus on the lighting and the more of the fog and the mood to kind of change the world to suit the songs. And so just curious if you could maybe elaborate on that. this year's world design in terms of what you wanted to do that was different than the Connected Waves performance last year.
[00:52:28.541] tktk: Last year, I added some effects for Lighting in the last year's Collected Waves. There aren't many things that can be applied to avatars, and I'm not sure if I can make it more immersive. The sense of being here, the sense of being in the world of VR, is a very important element. When there is light and shadow, the sense of being in the world of VR increases. One of my goals for this year is to realize that. So instead of using Unity's standard function, I decided to use my own lighting to create the lighting.
[00:53:56.445] Alpaka: Right. So last year, we actually also incorporated a number of lighting effects for connected waves. But one thing that we felt was maybe a bit lacking or could be improved was the interaction of the lighting effects on the actual performers, the avatars, to really give a sense of presence. So that's where for this year's event, this year's venue, which is Blue Rondo Stratos, we wanted to focus on improving that aspect, how the lighting and fog interacts with the avatars, incorporating aspects of both light as well as shadow to really make it feel that the performance is there physically in that world with you, right? And really try to have that sense of that physical presence, which is what we want to optimize for. And that's why we ended up not being able to use any of the default lighting setups built into Unity. We didn't really feel as though that was good enough. So myself and Umahil-san ended up creating this new lighting system pretty much from scratch for Stratos.
[00:54:53.969] Kent Bye: Wow. It's impressive. And so in terms of the playing, there seems to be a mix of purely improvised songs. And then sometimes it seemed like there was maybe a little bit more rehearsed and timed out performances. Just curious to hear a little bit about the mix of improvisation versus things that were maybe a little bit more preplanned.
[00:55:16.528] Alpaka: I have a question. In this concert, there was a mix of a well-prepared song and a jazz-like song, including improvisation. How did you think about that? What kind of plan did you have? I'm going to answer this question, but Mr. Takedage, please. What should I answer? So I think I can probably answer to this one. So one thing that was a difference between last year's Connected Waves performance versus this year's Stratos performance was last year, Connected Waves was by and large, mostly, you know, again, not all of the songs that we performed were jazz, at least original music, right? Although we can jazzify it, if you will. But pretty much all the performances were more, you know, alongside the jazz genre in terms of theme. But last year, Connected Wave was really, the theme of the event and the theme of the show was really more to be able to showcase the ability for live jazz performance in VR in general and be able to showcase not just the performances, but also be able to accentuate the effect using the visual effects as well in the world. But for this year's event, which is Stratos, we really wanted to take our show to the next level. And we were thinking about, well, how can we do that, right? And one of the things that we want to try for this year's event is really have a very concrete theme leading into the event. So, you know, Stratos having a theme of a space elevator and there being a pre-planned sequence of songs that can build up at certain points in the performance, et cetera, et cetera. And for that, it was necessary for us to kind of pre-plan pretty much all the songs beforehand. So we put a lot of effort into a lot of rehearsals that we did many, many, many times over the months leading up to the event where we got together and then first we have to start it off with figuring out the setlist. How would it flow? Where do we want to build up? Where do we want to kind of relax? And how will we build up towards the finale? And for some of those songs, it ended up not being jazz songs. It ended up being pop songs, right? Like, for example, I contributed a song myself called Raining on the Moon, which is very much a pop song, which was the opening song for the show. And then also the final song for the show, it was also not exactly jazz as well, right? So like in that sense, we weren't necessarily trying to purely play jazz from an improvisational perspective, but also combine them with other genres of music to be able to create this cohesive performance that flowed well from beginning to end. So in that sense, we weren't not necessarily stuck purely on the jazz theme, but chose to purposefully and intentionally insert jazz improvisation where it makes sense for them to be, right, as part of the overall show over the course of 45 minutes.
[00:58:07.330] Kent Bye: Nice. And so let's say last year when you were playing in the more improvised songs with Connected Waves, I'm wondering if the musicians can just comment on the different ways that they are cueing off each other or using motion cues or using the affordances of VR to coordinate, you know, because a lot of improv is a deep listening, but it's also watching each other. So just curious to hear a little bit more around that. how you're able to pick up on body language cues within VR that helps to play in more of the jazz and the improv sense. Yes.
[00:58:45.601] Alpaka: So when we were doing the jazz improvisation, I think you mentioned that there was eye contact, and that you could see other actors' motions. But specifically, what kind of visual cues I'm wondering if you're working on an improvised operation. Ms. America, please go ahead. Yes.
[00:59:16.400] Emnyeca: In the first place, rather than playing in real life, there is certainly less information that can be received in motion, but when we get used to playing in VR, it's not just motion cue, but it's like a phrase where the solo is about to end during the performance. Also, the phrase that sounds like it's going to be an intro or an outro I think that's one of the reasons why I've been able to build up my skills. I think that's one of the reasons why I've been able to build up my skills. I think that's one of the reasons why I've been able to build up my skills. Depending on the person you're playing with, if you're tracking them well, for example, when you blow the saxophone, if you raise it up, it's about to end. If you look this way at the end of the solo, it's like, I want you to play solo next time. How about you, Shiena?
[01:00:52.802] Sheena_baobab: Especially last year's BlueLondon Bassist, I didn't talk about it at all. I always do it in the think room, and I give instructions in my voice. It was very difficult because I couldn't speak at all in the last year's BASIS. Even if there was something wrong, it was difficult because of eye contact, finger pointing, and gaze. It was difficult, but I think I had the feeling that I could do it.
[01:01:38.200] Emnyeca: There was an accident, right? There was, there was. But that accident was fun, as a part of the music. It made sense. It made sense. Yes, yes.
[01:01:51.502] Alpaka: So she knows saying that, you know, in casual jazz sessions, even in VR, we might just vocalize, you know, our end of our solo or end of our turn and if needed, and we might just pass it on to the next performer. But a big restriction in terms of last year's Connected Waves is that we couldn't speak at all or this year as well. We obviously couldn't speak in the middle of our performance. So it was definitely difficult in terms of being able to capture the cues that we needed to capture to be able to understand how to make the music improvisation flow well but Emneka was saying that compared with real life there is definitely less cues there's going to be less visual cues that we get in VR and there's also a lag as well in terms of the fidelity of the motions in terms of how quickly we're able to capture those motions you know and when we're able to see them etc but once we get used to performing in VR and we've been doing that for a while we also get used to listening to the overall flow of the music and just being able to anticipate what will come next just purely through the music as opposed to relying so much on motion so in that sense performing in vr i feel almost trained us in a type of skill that we might not leverage as much purely from a real life performance perspective so that's something that's relatively unique to vr and also even in vr even if you know there is a lag even if the motions are not quite as precise or refined as what you can see in real life there are definitely cues that you can see like for example let's say uh one of your band members is playing the saxophone and then the saxophonist raises the instrument you know and that might signal that they're kind of ending their solo right or it might be trying to move on or like might indicate how much they're trying to build up that song at that particular moment Or there might be a case where they might just look towards you, right, to signal that it's your turn, right, and things of that sort. So that's where, again, it is definitely there's challenges in VR from a live performance improvisation perspective that doesn't exist in real life situations. But there's a lot of other signals along with techniques that we've acquired over time to be able to still perform effectively together in VR.
[01:03:55.151] Kent Bye: Well, I have to say that it's really quite impressive to see what is able to be done and what Blue Rondo's and EMN Records have been able to accomplish with these live performances. I was able to see both performances and I just was really blown away and just kind of awe-inspiring to see what is possible. Just curious to hear what other kind of feedback you've received from audiences from around the world.
[01:04:20.998] Alpaka: I was very impressed to see your show last year and this year. What kind of feedback and comments do you get from other people, especially international and overseas? Mr. Amunekas, please. Shin-san, you go ahead. Shin-san, please.
[01:04:43.769] Sheena_baobab: Well, until last year, everyone said it was magical. The main thing was to be surprised by online sessions. In that sense, I was surprised by technology. I don't think I'll be surprised by online sessions anymore. I think I'll be more praised for the contents of the show. So in a way, that's the beginning of what's to come. Up until last year,
[01:05:47.597] Alpaka: The notion or the concept of performing like a live session in VR with multiple musicians was something that was extremely new. And a lot of people were not even aware that such a thing was even possible. So everyone was saying that it was, quote unquote, magical. That's really the word that we heard a lot. Since, again, it was so new and everyone was just blown away by the fact that it was even possible in the first place. But fast forward to this year, we do feel as though more people are aware that this scene exists. It is possible for multiple musicians to play together in VR in real time. So in that sense, we've been increasingly getting comments over the past year, less about just the fact of performing together in VR, but more about the actual quality of the music and the quality of the show. So that's where, along with Techie Techie Sun, we'll love to continue to improve the quality of the shows that we put on. so that we can continue to push the boundaries of what's possible in VR.
[01:06:44.099] Kent Bye: And Nika had mentioned that there was the 41st edition of the Jam Sessions. And just curious to hear a little bit more around what typically happens at one of these Jam Sessions that happens every other week.
[01:06:58.103] Alpaka: I heard that the EMN Jam will be held for the 41st anniversary. What kind of event will the Jam Session be? How will you participate and what kind of experience will you have? Yes, please.
[01:07:16.880] Emnyeca: It's basically the same as the jam session in the real world. First of all, there are host musicians who can play to any standard, including myself. The host musician would play a few songs at first, and after that, it would be an open session, and everyone would enter the synchro room and go up to the stage. The time would start, and the musician would come in, and they would say what kind of song they want to do, and we would say, let's do it like this, and we would do the improvisation. That's how the performance starts. As I mentioned earlier, what kind of experience can you get? In Japan, jazz is very popular, and jazz places are limited and the charge is high. There are a lot of scenes where the atmosphere is heavy, but it's easy to do it in VR. I wanted to create a different jazz scene than the jazz scene I've done before in VR, so I tried to make it as casual as possible and remove as much air as possible. I was about to say something, what was it?
[01:09:15.889] Alpaka: So fundamentally, the online jam sessions that we host, EMN Jam, biweekly, you can look it up on EMN Records. But fundamentally, it's not that different from a real-life jam session, as those jam sessions would be organized. So there would be a number of host musicians, including myself, as in myself as in Amneka. who is familiar enough and skilled enough with jazz standards that they could pretty much perform any commonly performed song that is requested. So that's oftentimes what we start off with. And as the show goes on, we open the session up to any performers who want to join in. So they can come and join the band, get up on stage very casually, and then they also pick the song that they want to perform or they feel comfortable performing, and all the musicians will be performing alongside them. So it's really meant as a very low barrier to entry casual scene. And especially in Japan, there is a perception that it is a bit of a high barrier to entry to even get into the jazz scene in the first place. You need to know where to go, where the live house is, you need to pay to get into the jazz venues and sessions and so on. Whereas in VR, it's just so much easier for any musicians, even those who haven't really been experienced in jazz, to be able to just attend a session in VR and start performing, no matter what their skill level. So I'd really love to continue to make it easier for both musicians as well as the audience to just be able to casually attend jazz sessions and really enjoy the music.
[01:10:43.920] Kent Bye: Yeah, I had a chance to travel through Tokyo for two or three days a number of years ago back in 2019. And I just noticed that the culture of Japan is so much focused on the group and the collective and culture. Everyone was wearing the same suits as I was walking around. And in the United States, from where I'm from, there's a lot of focus on the individual and individual expression. And so I find it really interesting to see how virtual culture is taking off in Japan, where there's this opportunity for people to be... behind the anonymity of an avatar and a personality and to maybe express identity in a way that is not always accepted within the larger culture there. So just curious to hear if there's any experiences of that in this group of what it's like for people to find a new identity within VR and using music as a form of self-expression.
[01:11:45.131] Alpaka: I had the opportunity to travel to Japan before. One thing I noticed was that Japanese culture is not about individuals, but groups. I think it's important to act according to the group, such as reading the air. Mr. Amuneka, please.
[01:12:32.461] Emnyeca: Oh, it's me? Yes.
[01:12:34.782] Alpaka: Ah, Shira-san is coming, by the way.
[01:12:37.923] Emnyeca: Oh, I see. Yes. Eh? What should I do? But recently, young people seem to have a lot of that kind of monoculture, don't they? It feels like everyone has to be the same. I feel like I'm starting to get away from that a little bit. When it comes to jazz, Japan is really like that. The culture of jazz should be like this has been going on for a long time. Jazz that I learned in the U.S. is the best. If you can't be a bebop, you can't be a jazz. That kind of culture has been going on for a long time. I've always thought that's the bad side of Japanese jazz. In that sense, in a place where VR, the individual, really exists, I think it's a very big meaning of what we're doing right now to rebuild the jazz that was once a completely opposite culture. Thank you very much. Mr. Shinata, do you have any comments?
[01:13:57.813] Sheena_baobab: It's hard to put it all together, but I think it's the same now, but I think Japan is more free than the US in terms of individual clothing. It's more free than other countries. For example, as you know, It's a society where various cultures coexist freely. I feel that it's still being brought into VR. I think the diversity of the avatars used by the overseas tax and the Japanese community is different. I feel that Japanese avatars are being brought in from overseas. I think that's very interesting. I'm sure there are a lot of group activities, but I don't feel that it's so much that VR is being released. So what Emineko was saying is that, yes, traditionally Japanese culture is very much focused on being able to
[01:15:39.910] Alpaka: live your life and perform as part of a group rather than individualistic you know if you think about the long history but especially the younger generations in japan has definitely been moving more towards individualism so i think that in many cases that historical paradigm is starting to break down it probably doesn't really apply anymore at least in terms of how people think especially the younger generations in terms of jazz There is still a very static traditional culture in Japan where a lot of people have very firm and very strong opinions in terms of what constitutes jazz and what's not, what's acceptable and what's not. So in that sense, I do think that VR provides an incredible opportunity to transform and change what is jazz, you know, the definition of jazz itself within the Japanese overall culture. And they make it much more open and acceptable for a broader audience to be able to join in and just enjoy the music genre. So that's something that I think that there's a lot of potential in VR to be able to do. And Chino was saying that, you know, in Japan, there are, you know, yes, there again, there is some aspects of groupthink, but there's also an aspect of Japan being much more accepting of various forms of individual expression that oftentimes takes place in the form of subcultures. Like if you take fashion, yes, like a lot of people wear suits in Japan, right, to work. But there's also a very thriving, very diverse fashion scene in Japan, as I'm sure you know. That is very, very unique, right? That the types of fashion that you never would see outside of Japan. So in that sense, I believe that that aspect has translated into VR where, you know, Japan was really the first country that where there's an explosion of different types of avatars, you know, different styles, you know, different levels of fidelity and so on and so forth. where that diversity of avatars is now starting to actually influence the Western culture as well, where we're seeing more and more people on the Western side starting to adopt Japanese avatars as well, you know, those that are sold in booths and other platforms that are out there. So it's, in summary, like, again, I don't think it's necessarily that there's something really, really unique in VR, but, you know, the changes that we're seeing in VR is a reflection of the overall cultural transformation that is happening in Japan in the first place.
[01:17:51.075] tktk: Can I say something about this as well? Yes, go ahead. I think there are a lot of Japanese people who are quite fundamentalist, but I think it's hard to participate in VR without a lot of subjectivity as a media. I bought a pretty expensive device, a computer, Even if you want to be an avatar, you have to put in a lot of effort. It's a pretty high hurdle to participate in, and you have to work hard on it. At that stage, I realized that Japanese people are very active, and that they are the media that gather. As a VR feature, you can move your hands and feet, and even if you move, you can move by yourself. For example, in a Japanese game, like an open-world game, There are a lot of people who can't play because they don't know the purpose, but I have the impression that there are a lot of people who go ahead and explore by themselves. And when it comes to music, I think it goes really well with jazz and other genres such as experimental music, improvised music, and jazz.
[01:19:33.638] Alpaka: So Take Take was saying, so VR fundamentally, or VRChat specifically as a platform, it is a platform and it's a medium where at least at the level of maturity as it stands right now, you're almost forced to have some level of individual creativity and motivation to be able to really be active in VRChat in the first place. whether it's figuring out how VRChat works, whether it's creating your own avatar, you know, whether it's involving yourself in various communities. So in that sense, you know, again, without that motivation and kind of like the individual effort, you really can't get the best of what VRChat offers in the first place. So in that sense, I do believe that VRChat naturally attracts people who are passionate about pursuing their individual expression and individual interests. You know, anything ranging from, again, how they look and how their avatars move to what events and what communities they participate in. So in terms of music, I do believe that there's a similar affinity in VR in terms of, again, jazz is a very, more so than a lot of other genres of music, it's very free flowing and there's a lot of room for freedom and expression. So in that sense, there's a lot of affinity with what VRChat represents and how much individual expression is possible in VR in the first place.
[01:20:43.871] Kent Bye: Yeah, this year at Rain Dance Immersive, all of the live music performances were from Japan. And Fangs was saying that in part because there's the Yamaha sync room, but there just generally seems to be a really thriving live music scene in Japan. And so just curious if the other members, if there's other events that you really like to go to or other things you just want to point out of This year, all of Reign Dance's live show categories will feature Japanese bands.
[01:21:25.834] Alpaka: Mr. Shina and Mr. Takedaki, please go ahead.
[01:21:46.605] Sheena_baobab: It's a dance event. In the previous Rain Dance, I won a prize. What was it again? Roots? What was Roots again?
[01:22:02.348] tktk: It's called Rhythmic Roots.
[01:22:04.429] Sheena_baobab: That's right. That's where the dancers were dancing together. It's not just the instruments, but the dancers can also join the sync room and dance. In the Japanese community. So, for example, I'm thinking of doing it next time. I recommend you to come and see the event where the dancers dance with the singer. There are many events, so I can't tell you all of them, but I'm going to perform at Club MZ, which hasn't been announced yet. I hope you'll come and see the event. Is there anything you'd like to recommend, Tekitek?
[01:22:54.372] tktk: Yes, first of all, there is a place called draw that is doing an audio-visual event. There is a draw function, and that is live coding. There's a group called Generative VJ, where we write the code and express it visually, and also make music. The events there don't have a lot of people, but I think it's a very interesting and experimental event. So,
[01:23:55.526] Alpaka: There are several events that I think we'll love to recommend. So one of the new trends, I think, in VR performance is live performance combined with dancers, live dancers as well in VR. So not just a musical experience, but also a visual experience with dance as well. An example of that was Rhythmic Roots that actually won, I believe, the live performance or like the, I don't remember the category name, but they won the categories for this year. which involved dancers dancing live to live music as well. And that becomes possible through Sync Room because dancers can also join Sync Room and they can hear the music live and they can sync their dance to the music being played as well. So that's something that is relatively new and we expect there to be more of that. So we definitely recommend everyone to try to join one of those events. There's actually a new venue called Club Matsun that's coming up that we'll also recommend people to check out. And I was saying that there's several groups that are incredible. So like one of them would be Draw or Draw.function. It's actually a live coding event hosted by a group. They actually do performances both in real life as well as in VR as well. And this is live coding. I'm not sure if you're familiar with live coding, but it's essentially the ability to construct the visuals on the spot and using code, right, in reaction, like to sync with the music. which is pretty incredible to look at. So we'll definitely recommend everyone to check out one of their performances, although their performance frequency is not very frequent. So you kind of want to make sure, check on when they're performing next, but that's highly recommended. And also I'm sure that a lot of people know, but there's a really famous club called Ghost Club that's based in Japan. That's a very well-known club in the VR scene that has incredible effects. You know, the overall venue is incredibly top-notch. So we also recommend that as well.
[01:25:48.359] Sheena_baobab: Excuse me, let me correct this. I think Rhythmic Roots wasn't in the sync room because it was on Discord. That's another story, but I think it's normal for dancers to sync.
[01:26:03.035] Alpaka: Yeah, so Shino was saying that, you know, in terms of rhythmic roots, again, like maybe, I'm not sure if they're performing through synchro, but again, you know, again, they're able to, like, it's a combined event of both live dance performance as well as live music performance. So that seems to be something that is popping off as of late.
[01:26:19.121] Kent Bye: Great. Well, now that you were talking around some of the trends in terms of dance, I'm just curious to hear, where do you all want to take Blue Rondo here in the future?
[01:26:33.188] Alpaka: What are your plans and what do you want to do in the future? Yes, I would like to hold experimental events in the future.
[01:26:37.131] tktk: For example, last year, I did a show called Glitch in Jazz, where I talked about There are people who put effects on it. I've done an event like that. It's like that. It's an event where you decide everything on the spot without making any decisions. We'd love to host more groundbreaking experimental shows as part of Blue Rondo and the Blue Rondo set of worlds. For example, last year we had an event where there was visual effects overlaid on top of a jazz performance
[01:27:53.843] Alpaka: And there was also another one where it was purely improvisational without any sort of music being planned beforehand. So like the entire event was completely improvised and also like things like being able to combine live coding with jazz. So we'd love to explore, you know, additional possibilities, things that haven't really been tried before in the VR space and see if we can make that happen.
[01:28:14.923] Kent Bye: Great. And finally, I'd love to hear what each person thinks is the ultimate potential of virtual reality. In other words, what the most exalted thing it might be able to enable here in the future. So the ultimate potential of VR and what it might be able to enable, especially in the context of music.
[01:28:34.198] Alpaka: This is probably the last question. The possibility of virtual reality, What kind of possibilities do you see for virtual reality? I'll start with myself. So on my end, you know, I think that there is definitely a lot of possibilities in VR. But at the same time, I think the most important aspect for me for VR is just the low barrier to being able to start something, do something, you know, view something, experience something. much more so than real life where whether it's physical whether it's psychological whether it's something else like it just it's just not that easy to start something new to engage in the community to experience something different and that's something where again i think vr has a huge possibility for being able to allow for richer and more diverse experience for everyone who's in vr whether it's something where it's experiencing shows and events that you couldn't really see in VR or whether it's connecting with people across the world or just about understanding how other cultures how other people behave and you know what they care about right so In that sense, at least for me, I actually think that the ultimate potential of virtual reality, if I were to summarize it, is really in that, which is the ability to connect people with people in a way that is much easier and much lower barrier to entry compared with having to do the same in real life. So that's kind of my opinion.
[01:30:10.905] Sheena_baobab: It's basically the same, but it's a barrier issue. Language barriers and allowing people to enjoy performances even if they don't speak the language. あとは距離の問題 距離を超えられる Even if someone doesn't live near a venue with live performances, they can relax in a home and enjoy great music, including their friends' performances あともう一つ We are enables performances in scenarios that would be impossible in real life この3つかな 誘う
[01:30:59.104] Alpaka: So she was saying that, again, mostly agreeing with what I was saying, but being able to remove language barriers, even if you don't speak the language, you can still attend an event and enjoy the music. and meet other members of the community, not having to worry about distance. Even if you're located across the world or very remote places, you're able to still interact with people and participate in events, and also the possibilities of different types of events and different types of scenes, performances, shows that are possible in VR.
[01:31:32.299] tktk: I think it's important that human cognitive abilities are influenced by the environment. In the first place, VR is the environment itself, so I think that the way humans are is changing a lot. I'm very interested in how VR changes, and I hope that it will change my self-identity and make it better in real and VR societies.
[01:32:29.096] Alpaka: All right, so take a look at what I was saying. So fundamentally, I believe that a person's ability to perceive the environment around them is really heavily influenced by their individual and what state they're in and what their environment and conditions are. So in that sense, VR kind of, in some respects, represents the environment, right? It's an artificial environment that is being created around the person. So there is a hope that that type of experience and that type of environment actually starts to perform and actually starts to have an effect on real life where people start to think differently and act differently in terms of how they interact with the world, how they interact with the people around them, and then how they think as well. So I think that's a big potential that VR has.
[01:33:15.185] Emnyeca: I don't think I'm going to be able to summarize it at the end, but I'm not going to summarize it. It will be my personal story for the future, so please keep that in mind. I've been working in VR for about four years now, and even in those four years, the VR technology has been improving a lot. I think that's where our performance comes in. But when I think about entertainment, I think that in the direction where performance and show quality are increasingly sought after, more quality and immersive entertainment will come out more and more. In the midst of all of this, I think we, as individuals, will not be able to keep up with the quality of our individual performances once we enter a large company. But when that happens, I think there is a completely different direction of entertainment in VR. It's probably a physical experience. For example, everyone plays together, everyone dances together. It's like you can understand that with the audience. I think there will be more and more multidirectional entertainment in the future. So, as an EMN Records community, I want to be a part of the community to do various things. I want to be a part of the community I think it would be great if we could become a community that focuses on jazz and music. That's what I personally think. I'm looking forward to it.
[01:35:40.771] Alpaka: So I'm Nikhil Singh. I've been active on VR for about four years now. But even in that relatively short period of time, I've really seen the possibilities in VR, what's possible, the techniques that are involved, all the technical elements of VR to have advanced by a lot, incredible amounts. So if you think about that from an entertainment perspective, we do expect that over time, as long as VR music scene continues to evolve, people would start to expect and continue to expect higher quality, more immersive experiences in VR. You know, that's something that we do expect will happen. So in that sense, if you look at that trend, there might be a future where individual, more community-based music events like what we're hosting today in VRChat may not fully be able to catch up to that level of technical excellence or technical sophistication, especially if corporations and entire companies start getting involved and start creating their own events in VRChat. There's a limitation in terms of how much individuals and even smaller teams can do by themselves. So that is something that we foresee, but at the same time, we do believe that there are experiences that are unique and irreplaceable in VR that has less to do with the quality and the polish of the actual staging and the show itself. Like, for example, being able to perform together in VR with other musicians. or to be able to share an experience together in VR. That's something that has nothing to do with how polished the show is, but more to do with what you can experience in VR that you're not able to get elsewhere. So in that sense, I love to move in that direction in terms of the EMN Records community, try out many different projects that explore the possibilities of what's possible there, and would love to build a community that is really on the front lines in terms of being able to build and provide those types of experiences in the future.
[01:37:32.116] Kent Bye: Is there any final thoughts that each person would like to share with the broader immersive community?
[01:37:50.493] tktk: Yes, the VR community. It's like trying something out on your own. Making something, participating in something, whatever it is. Trying things out is... It might be related to what Ayumi-san said earlier. Being able to participate in something on your own, or participating in something, rather than quality, it's your personality. So...
[01:38:37.788] Alpaka: One thing that I'll say is that I want the VR community to be involved in a lot of different events and communities. Again, it's not so much about the quality, but more about the person's personality and motivations and what they really want to experience. So the more you can experience in VR, I think the richer the experience will be. So I would recommend that. Shina-san, please.
[01:39:00.931] Sheena_baobab: I've heard that other communities are probably Western-style communities, so I'd like to say that there are still a lot of people who don't know about the Japanese community at all, but still want to know. As for the music, Japanese culture, and anime songs, please visit VR Japan Tours and EMN Records. We have a lot of things to tell you.
[01:39:48.487] Alpaka: So although we have come a long way in terms of being able to connect the international, Japan and international scenes within VRChat, I still feel so there's still a lot of Japanese communities, events, things that are taking place that are still relatively unknown in the VR scene, if you look at it at a global and international scale. So, you know, whether it's EMN Records from a music perspective or VR Japan Tours, which I'm involved in, you know, it's another community that I'm involved in. I would love to continue to be able to spread, you know, connect Japanese communities with the international scene and spread what the work that everyone is doing here. And I highly encourage everyone to attend those events. Amaneka-san, please. I'm not saying that I'm obsessed with VR, or that I've always been into it.
[01:41:15.033] Emnyeca: I think VR will become a part of our daily lives. I think it will become a part of our daily lives. I think it will become a part of our daily lives. I think it will become a part of our daily lives. I think it will become a part of our daily lives. I think it will become a part of our daily lives. I think it will become a part of our daily lives. I think it will become a part of our daily lives. Recently, the members of EMN have been in the VR community since they met each other in VR, so they are very open-minded without closing in on VR. I think that if you make various connections, your life will be even more interesting. EMN Records is open, so if you have anything to say about music, I'll do anything.
[01:42:18.160] Alpaka: So I do split my time between real life and VR, obviously, as everyone does. But for me, VR has been starting to become, again, an important part of my day-to-day life. And I think it's the same for a lot of people that are out there. So in that sense, I think that there are cases where the impact that VR has on you is not just purely restricted to VR. You might meet up with people who you originally met in VR in real life in the form of friendship, or maybe there's a community or project that comes about out of VR that might, you know, not necessarily take place in VR. But I think those are incredible opportunities. So I encourage everyone to keep an open mind and just, you know, connect with all the incredible people that are in VR. And in that sense, at least from a musical perspective, you know, I do strive EMN Records to be a very open community. So we're more than happy to help in terms of being able to assist connecting people to people and get interesting projects going. And maybe I'll give my thoughts as well. So I do think, as I mentioned, it's really about, in the end, I think VR has a wealth of opportunities. There's a lot of people who are on VRChat or other VR platforms that mostly stick within a very, very small community. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, first of all, right? If that's what you're looking for, then there's nothing wrong. But if you were to try to open up your world and look at what's possible and, you know, in terms of both the experiences that you can have in VR, as well as the people that you can meet, the possibilities are truly endless. I've experienced that myself. And that's something where, again, if you're feeling the motivation to do so, and if you want to see what other people are doing, what exciting things they're working on and what potential communities, projects that you can be involved in, I do recommend everyone to reach out to the community, just get yourself involved. And I think that wonderful things will come out of it.
[01:44:15.765] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, Alpaka, Sheena, Tikka Tikka, and Emnika, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast to share a little bit more around the journey of Blue Rondo into the VR scene and playing live jazz music. I'm Really grateful for Rain Dance for being able to curate your performances over the last couple of years for me to get some exposure for this live music scene that's happening in Japan. And it's just really exciting and really enjoyed both the world and the music and just really filled me with this sense of awe and wonder as I was seeing you all play together. And yeah, it just felt like I was going to a live show. Just really cool to be able to have that within VR. So thanks again for joining me here on the podcast to help break it all down.
[01:45:01.130] Alpaka: Thank you, Kent, for having us. Really, really appreciate you having us as part of your podcast.
[01:45:07.814] Emnyeca: Thank you so much. Thank you, Alpaca, too. Good translation. Thank you.
[01:45:16.087] Kent Bye: Thanks again for listening to this episode of the Voices of VR podcast. And if you enjoy the podcast, then please do spread the word, tell your friends, and consider becoming a member of the Patreon. This is a supported podcast, and so I do rely upon donations from people like yourself in order to continue to bring this coverage. So you can become a member and donate today at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. Thanks for listening.
