I spoke with Todd Little & Erik Horn about Space-Time Adventure Tour in Central Park during Tribeca Immersive 2025. See more context in the rough transcript below.
This is a listener-supported podcast through the Voices of VR Patreon.
Music: Fatality
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.438] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR Podcast. It's a podcast that looks at the structures and forms of immersive storytelling and the future of special computing. You can support the podcast at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. So, continuing on my expanded coverage of events in and around Tribeca Immersive and Tribeca 2025... Today's episode is with an AR site-specific guided tour that was happening in Central Park called Spacetime Adventure Tour. So this is a part of Fair Worlds. And I had a chance to have this serendipitous collision with Todd Little and Eric Horn of Fair Worlds. And so I was at the Tropic Immersive. I was searching for the next thing to do or cover. And they asked me if I was willing to go check out this AR guided tour in Central Park. And I was like, well, do you want to take me right now? Let's go. So we ended up hopping on a subway train, going into Central Park, and I did this like 45 minute tour. So the Space Time Adventure Tour was kind of born out of Seattle. They were doing these guided tours with this kind of retro futuristic type of world, kind of world fairs all around, like celebrating of technology. So it's kind of like you're going back in time, but you're also in this alternative timeline where there's all these time crystals that have these magical properties. And so there's this kind of whole other world that they're building out. with this augmented reality tours where the Central Park version, you're able to go through these different monuments that are really quite scenic. It was a really nice, pleasant walk that took me to a lot of different landmarks and places within Central Park. And it just helped guide me there without having to really worry about looking at the map of how to get to one place or another. And it's kind of tied together with this whole narrative. so they're coming from a film background so there's cut scenes that are jumping in and out i found that it was a little bit too reliant upon some of those different cut scenes where i'd like to see a little bit more of like grounding me into a different spatial context allowing me to like really settle into where i'm at in this space and then surrender over into the magic circle of whatever story they wanted to continue on with this larger narrative of what they were doing So they had the application that had like the map down at the bottom that was telling me the next place to go. And then maybe a photo of what I was expected to see. And then sometimes it would kick into more of an augmented reality mode where I could take a picture of this Alice in Wonderland monument. And then they would like start to overlay different creatures on top of it using the Niantic. It used to be Lightship and now it's like the Niantic Spatial SDK application. to be able to get down to what they say is going to be like centimeter accuracy to put other spatial objects on top of it. So this is kind of like a guided tour type of conceit where using augmented reality to have this paid DLC for people to pay to take these different tours to find new ways to explore different spaces. So we'll be covering all that and more on today's episode of the Voices of VR podcast. So this interview with Todd and Eric happened on Sunday, June 8th, 2025. So with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:03:11.789] Todd Little: Hey, I'm Todd Little. I'm a senior software developer at Fairworlds. I've just been very excited about the VR space in 2016. Got my start in UX design and then slowly kind of learned how to program and been using all the different game engines to kind of explore how can we design in VR. And right now, we're at the space where we're working on our first intellectual property, which we'll get into, called Spacetime Adventure Tours. But yeah, that's just a little bit about me.
[00:03:40.225] Erik Horn: My name is Eric Horn. I am the co-founder of Fair Worlds and chief creative officer. My background's film. I went to movie school at the University of Texas, where I met our creative director, Brad Parrott. My background's film, but when the DK2 came out, when I first put that on, my world turned black and white and decided to completely pivot into what we now call immersive. But Fair Worlds definitely began as a VR-first agency. We're a small boutique agency. doing VR and AR for clients like Environmental Defense Fund and Dell, our two biggest clients currently.
[00:04:14.995] Kent Bye: Maybe you could each give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into this space.
[00:04:19.436] Todd Little: Yeah, totally. So when I was mentioning 2016, 2017, that was right around when the Vive was coming out, HTC Vive. And it was such an exciting time. I was in a master's program at the University of Washington. It's called the Human-Centered Design and Engineering Department. And, yeah, we were kind of looking at, you know, from a process standpoint, looking at those early VR apps like Tilt Brush and looking at, it was a fun little project where it was like, what if Bob Ross, you know, was able to look at Tilt Brush and use sort of design theory and look at all the affordances for these existing apps? And that kind of opened up my mind of like, Well, okay, so now that we have this sort of physicalized, you know, the controllers may or may not be there. How does that affect how we design our experiences? And, you know, more recently we're exploring augmented reality and we are, yeah, excited to see how we can be very site specific and sort of encourage people to learn more about that particular location, but also, yeah, have a whimsical and fun time as well. And yeah. Yeah, my journey actually started way before that in sort of the natural sciences in college. And this feels like an evolution of like, yeah, how can we have these experiences and create these amazing memories that can exist longer than just a few minutes, but over more longer periods?
[00:05:44.528] Erik Horn: And like I said, yeah, my background was film and video and advertising and comedy. So I was doing a lot of short format storytelling. And when VR became a possibility, clearly we leaned into 360 video first. I was able to direct a documentary piece for the New York Times pretty early on. Learned a lot of lessons from that piece. And it really was when the Vive came out and getting that six degrees of freedom and giving the user hands, we made a full pivot into making short form storytelling experiences for our existing client base in that format. So we made pieces for Whole Foods, for like I said, Environmental Defense Fund, Dell. that were brought to conferences. A lot of our work is not out on Steam or publicly because it's all made for these very specific conferences or events. And when the pandemic happened, that was our opportunity to kind of take the time and kind of look away from the agency model and create something for ourselves. And when all we could do was go on walks, we decided, well, what is an immersive walk? And that's how Space Time Adventure Tours was born.
[00:06:48.989] Kent Bye: So maybe you could talk around some of those early prototypes in terms of where did you actually begin with the space-time tours?
[00:06:55.307] Todd Little: Yeah, one of the things that we got early on was we were looking at the Seattle Center as our first stop. We're based in Seattle. And the routing, one of the big things was, how can we make this an accessible route? Andy Slater is our sound designer, and he's legally blind. And so we quickly were starting to realize that we needed to look at sort of ADA routes to navigate the space. And as we sort of grew, that spatial audio beacons became a feature that we wanted to allow the user, if they're blind, be able to navigate the space without visuals. And some of these other early prototypes, we got into this sort of like time crystal exploring, you know, getting into this kind of wacky science, retro future, wacky science vibe to it. And we wanted to have different locations that could be activated and you would enter into these time bubbles and you would almost have like a theremin kind of experience where the closer you were, you could activate and have this play space in this time bubble. And time crystals are actually a real thing if you look them up. And so we're looking for those kind of like fun moments that are sort of like pseudoscience, but there is some science behind it. And it was a cool mechanic. I think we can still iterate on it. It's almost like a Simon Says. We started off with kind of a Simon Says, and then that would activate the time crystal and kind of unlock that moment. So that was one of the early prototypes. I don't know, Eric, if you wanted to...
[00:08:27.003] Erik Horn: Yeah, and if it's not clear by our name, Fair Worlds, we are big World's Fair dorks. So, hence the 1962 fair being our main place that we started. And in that vein of the World's Fair and, you know, old school themed entertainment, we wanted the experience to be accessible from everyone from my five-year-old at the time to my 75-year-old mother. the same way that Disney rides are, as well as accessible for someone who's blind. And that was an interesting design Venn diagram for us to fall into. And there's a lot of prototyping and a lot of experimentation with what's a gameplay mechanic that everyone can do. The theremin piece I'm still really proud of. but has a lot of challenges of like, well, what if someone is in a wheelchair and moving back and forth and trying to think through all of that? We've gone through multiple different software, like the whole project began on Unity Mars. Now we're on Niantic Spatial. Yeah, it's been a journey.
[00:09:27.850] Kent Bye: And so, yeah, we just happened to collide at Tribeca Immersive on this Sunday afternoon where I was open to possibilities and you said, hey, you should go check out this AR tour. And I was like, well, we should go now. And so we ended up going and traveling up to Central Park and I did an hour-long augmented reality space-time tour that took me to all these monuments within Central Park. And so maybe you could give a bit more context for how this specific iteration of the space-time tour that you have that's based in Central Park, but also that you're a part of Tribeca with the Creators Program that's happening here. So just give a bit more context for this project.
[00:10:03.472] Erik Horn: Sure. So after working on the Seattle site for so long, a few things became abundantly clear for what works really well for a space-time adventure tour. The place needs to be a delightful place to walk. It needs to be safe to walk, where you're not going to get hit by a car. And some of that, doing the QA test, you want to do over and over again. And this will be the first one that we monetize. So what is a spot that has just a huge influx of users every day, both locals and tourists? And I used to live in New York and have a real love of the city and the park, and it just seemed like a real perfect fit. The 1964 World's Fair Park in New York, while I love it, is not super accessible and isn't a living, breathing space. And Central Park, if you walk it, you hear a different language every three seconds. It's vibrant. And we just think it's a really great place to bring to life because there's so much history there that people just walk right past. And we think this is a fun way for a local or a tourist to kind of revisit that in a way that's not dry. So we spent a lot of time thinking about what's funny about the park, what's funny about this type of experience. And that's, yeah, we're excited to keep expanding in Central Park into other locations.
[00:11:19.525] Todd Little: Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the things that we do when we are kind of figuring out the routing of it is, yeah, do we have a subway line that's close by? But then we we chose the Bethesda Terrace, which is sort of like the heart of the park. So we knew early on that was going to be one of our center points. And that's been one of the things that we try to find these different landmarks that we know will be really common attraction points that folks will want to go to. But then another thing that we were trying to keep aware of is, yeah, where our bathrooms, you know, these logistical things that are just part of when you're on a tour and you're a human, we've got to be aware of. We also try to find... For the Seattle tour, we were trying to find a place that is kind of a gathering spot. We ended up changing our ending so that there is kind of a place to debrief and find food, have like a rest stop. It was a little bit more challenging in Central Park to find a good ending location, but that's in our design process. That's one of the things that we think about is, yeah, where do we end up and how can we accommodate and make sure people are being taken care of during the tour?
[00:12:26.337] Kent Bye: And so the mechanics of the augmented reality portions is that it seems like the virtual positioning system, at least having a map that is a little bit more granular than what you would maybe normally get, or maybe that's just purely the GPS. But I felt like that having the way finding as a part of the map where the screen on the phone is split up into different sections, and then you have the top section where You have more like a TV screen where you have these cinematic cut scenes that are cutting in and out as you get to these different places. You have radio that starts to play music as you're going in between these different points. And so, yeah, maybe you could just talk around the process of creating this world, the world that you're creating, because it is somewhat unclear as to where in space and time we are, because you're going back into these locations and then you're pulling in historical information. But we're also in this kind of like speculative future or kind of ambiguously post-human or I don't know exactly where we're at, maybe retro futurist type of place where the rules are a little bit different in terms of like there's space crystals and there's kind of a magical realism that we have that you're able to play with augmented reality. So maybe you could describe the world that you're creating, but also like some of the ways that you're using the augmented reality technology to amplify the experience of having people to be able to immerse themselves into this place.
[00:13:42.421] Erik Horn: Yeah, I mean, I think starting the experience at the 1962 fair and that general aesthetic of the vision of the future from 1962 really helped us paint our overall theme of the idea of Space Time Adventure Tours. It's also just near and dear to a lot of our hearts, things like Back to the Future, that general aesthetic and that comedic voice. So we view this as just one of many tours that will take place in this overarching story where there is a fictional corporation called Applied Theoretical Mechanics that is releasing all of these different contraptions and technologies, enlisting you, the user, to go harvest time crystals for them. So there's kind of this comedic back and forth between you as the user into the story, And also, I think it's a Disney quote, you can't teach people without tricking them into thinking that they're having fun. So trying to go entertainment first and then bringing that history layer to it. Because we want everything from school groups to families to 20-somethings to try this where they may not do a standard history tour of a site. And we think that comedy and gameplay really help.
[00:14:59.528] Todd Little: Yeah, so in the first, the 1962 Seattle tour, we had a couple of characters, Clarence and Penny, and they were trapped in 1962. And you get a sense that there was some kind of mega event that happened that split time and space. So we don't explore that as much in the New York tour, but we continue to add more and more to the world building of the space and so if you do more and more tours the hope is that you get a little bit more of the backstory of this corporation that has different departments like there's potentially a past and a present and a future department and they're all trying to fight each other for funding i mean we're continuing to add and evolve this applied theoretical mechanics corporation And in the experience at New York, you can hear some of the ads in the interstitials of, you know, like you can sell your future and, you know, all these kind of little bit of world building that we're adding into it. But like Eric said, it's primarily where we're focusing on the history and the monuments that are at the location. And then, yeah, the sort of the sweetness or on top is this world building underneath.
[00:16:06.721] Kent Bye: Yeah, and so there are some parts where it turns into the camera and it's overlaying different types of time crystals and creating these portaling effects and really tracking off of the monuments. But a lot of the core of the experience seemed to be leaning more into, let's say, the cinematic tradition of playing cut scenes and videos once you get to these monuments. And so I'm just curious to hear about your design process of going with playing videos at these locations and how you start to think around this blending of walking tour, audio, the pacing of as you're moving and then when you get there, being able to use that location to then dive into a little bit of a historical context of the different stories that you want to tell about that specific place.
[00:16:49.249] Erik Horn: Yeah, we've actually even toned the videos back over the last five years. But because we have film backgrounds, that is something that we still look at. And some of it even has to do with performance. Once we get to a point where you can do AR on a device for longer periods of time without draining battery, I would love almost all of this to happen in a spatial format, right? And we want to be ahead of the curve for when there is glasses that can do what we would like it to do. I would see it where you're not really watching videos at all. It's like everything is happening in the space with you. But Thinking through what is better to be viewed on your phone looking down versus having your eyes up and present while you're walking is actually something that we constantly are playing with and we're excited with this launch of Central Park to try to get a lot more user data. You'll see that in future updates shift and change as it continually evolves.
[00:17:44.457] Todd Little: Yeah, just to Eric's point, you know, I think we're looking at that AR glasses format and this is sort of like we're in this kind of weird in-between zone where we're playing video content on a 2D device and the user might not necessarily be able to appreciate the surroundings, but when we have this form factor of the AR glasses, we can overlay that layer on top. So that friction may be a little bit less, but we've definitely gotten that feedback of wanting to be able to be more present in the experience. And so we're leaning more a bit more, like Eric said, into the audio side of things and less on the video. I think Eric has another.
[00:18:23.790] Erik Horn: And even to that point, like, what is a purely audio version? So we're excited about the metaray bands and those types of form factors, especially from an accessibility standpoint. And just a pure spatial audio version, we're actually also very excited about.
[00:18:39.775] Kent Bye: Yeah, I was wearing your noise-canceling headphones, and I think I might have actually preferred to hear a version where I was able to hear a little bit more of the sounds of the park, because a lot of that was being tuned out. So my experience was that overall, I really enjoyed the journey and the track that you took me on. I enjoyed going to the places I happened to be doing on your phone, which allowed me to take other photos as I'm going to these locations, which I feel like having a workflow for people to mark these moments that they're going in space and time by taking photos and that sometimes when you're using an ar app like this there's some fear that if you quit out of it then you may have to go back and restart it because it you know is a time-based thing it gets triggered by geofencing and whatnot and so i found that there's the different qualities of presence that as i'm walking i have the agency to kind of move there's waypoints where i'm going and so there's moments where i can go off the beaten path and pause it and go check out something that if it wasn't on the tour So I have the freedom and agency to do that. I'm moving my body through space, so there's a lot of activity. So walking for about 45 minutes when I did it. And then there's the aspect of, like, I'm in a park with other people, but they're not necessarily in my experience. And if anything, the people taking photos in front of a monument may mean that I can't trigger on it until they get out of the way, that type of situation. But there's also this story element where You're telling me a lot of information around the different monuments wasn't as much of sort of coherent arc between all of different monuments. And so I'm left with kind of the spatial experience of like a story of a place and a way of exploring this place and learning some facts around this place that I didn't know before. And so, yeah, I guess one of the things that, in terms of feedback or things that I would like to see in experiences like this is really centering it into my body and allowing me to be in that space and instructions to notice certain things. I often refer to Francesca Panetta's 6x9 as a way of rather than being in solitary confinement and listening to other people talk about their experiences of being in solitary confinement. It's a second person perspective of instructions for you will notice this, you know, notice your body and really grounding me into this space. And so I think the storytelling of an embodied storytelling is more around like the centering of the body first and foremost. And so how can the body be preferenced? How can your sensory experience, how can you get me to a waypoint and a destination and take a pause for me to really take in the sensory experience rather than having a geofenced video that kind of auto plays and jumps into a story before I'm able to kind of really gain the context of my sensory experience to understand where I am at. And so understanding the balance between like the real affordances of a guided tour like this and figuring out what center of gravity you want to focus on in terms of Is it more of the story? Is it more of the cinematic aspects of it? Is it more of your body? Is it more of the place? Is it more of the agency and more of the emotion? So yeah, those are just some thoughts as I go through these different pieces and the things that I'm looking at as I'm going through this, a piece like this.
[00:21:35.984] Erik Horn: Yeah, we're hoping as we start to get users and potentially more partners, we want to build these tours both for client work and then also release them on our own to the store to start exploring even different types of storytelling in this format. You know, Space Time Adventure Tours, like, very near and dear to our heart, the way the style and the comedic voice, but there is also different types of storytelling you can do in getting people out in the world. Like I'm a big believer in making someone leave their house and go on an hour long walk for there's I mean, obviously the health considerations, but it's just a type of storytelling people aren't used to. There's very few examples of this type of work. And I think it just puts you in a completely different headspace and a different way to take in information that is unique and that doesn't have to always be funny. Like we've been looking at other sites and tour sites where frankly it would be inappropriate to try to make a lot of jokes and really thinking about how do you honor these places and also encourage people to go visit places they normally wouldn't or might walk right past.
[00:22:44.833] Todd Little: Yeah, and I think, yeah, giving an invitation for folks to explore, just kind of similar to what Eric said, is opening up possibilities for people to get to know a space. I did want to mention that we've been working with the Niantic Spatial team. They've switched to being Niantic Spatial instead of LightShip. SDK. So that's kind of our background. And one of the key sort of features that we've been experimenting with is the visual positioning system. So on the New York tour, there's Alice in Wonderland statue that gets activated. And so that's been very cool to explore how can we have very precise animations and different locations. So yeah, we're excited to explore that a bit more.
[00:23:27.318] Kent Bye: Yeah, you have an animated creature that's on the top of a top hat of one of the creatures. And so can you just elaborate a little bit of the specific VPS? Because I know that there's the GPS that seems to be perhaps what's driving the map, but the VPS is the visual positioning system. And so does that just allow you to get a little bit more finely grained control of placing virtual objects on top of a statue and just what that allows you to do?
[00:23:50.570] Todd Little: Totally. Yeah. So the visual positioning system, if you think about GPS, you can put content that's got a range of about 30 feet. It can be off by about 30 feet. And with VPS, they say it's about centimeter accuracy, but it really depends on how many scans of the location. So you want to try to have as much coverage. Time of day is one big consideration. Weather, like seasonal, so it could be snowy or springtime. Those are considerations when you're designing for these spaces. But then, for example, we have this Jabberwock that appears on the Mad Hatter's hat, and we can very precisely place his claws right on the hat. We're definitely tweaking that. It's not 100% accurate, but it's much better than having a 30-foot consideration of where it can be But yeah, it's an exciting place to be. It's been around for a couple years. Google has its own solution, and there's a few other ones. But we've been partnering with Niantic on this and been pretty happy with it.
[00:24:50.387] Kent Bye: So it sounds like you're going to be launching soon. So what are your hopes and aspirations as you start to get this out and provide this as paid content for people to buy and, while they're in New York City, take this tour, maybe go on some places that they wouldn't normally know how to get to or easily able to get to?
[00:25:07.233] Erik Horn: We're just over the moon to get it out into the world and get users doing it on a daily basis. We look a lot at escape room design and a quote that I like from that space is, an escape room is not really open or not done until it's been open for a year. So we really want that year of user data and we'll be pushing updates and getting feedback like this as we continue to refine the tour. We've been doing QA on our own. We have a group of New Yorkers that we've been working with remotely, but there's nothing like ticketed paying customers as we're very excited to enter into that world and we'll be looking right away at localizing to different languages and providing a camera feature. We think people are immediately going to want to start taking photos, especially tourists. But no, we're over the moon about where this can go. We've done South by Southwest events with 12 improv actors for live events. We're looking at mixed reality. We office with Brent Bushnell and Dream Park. He's doing something on the Quest 3. There might be something there. There's a lot of places we can go with it, but first, we're excited to be here at Tribeca, included in the creator's market, see what comes out of that, and... We hope to be in New York quite a bit more.
[00:26:25.106] Todd Little: Yeah, just to echo Eric, we were at the Tribeca immersive panels yesterday, and I really like that quote of building in public. Like, you know, we're going to sort of evolve this form over time, and getting a lot of user feedback is going to be super helpful. But yeah, we're very excited to launch this, for sure.
[00:26:43.498] Kent Bye: Great. And finally, what do you each think is the ultimate potential of this type of spatial computing and immersive art and immersive storytelling, and what it might be able to enable?
[00:26:54.401] Erik Horn: I've thought about how I would answer this question for many years, and now I am blanking, so I'm going to go... This is personal to me, and the reason I'm into Spatial now is growing up, I always would go on rides at Epcot with my family, and I was like, I want to make these rides. I want to be an Imagineer. But that seemed like an impossible dream. In a lot of ways, it is. A single person doesn't make those attractions. And when I put on the DK2, that was one of the first thoughts I had. It's like, oh, I can take people on storytelling journeys the same way that I was taken as a child with my family going on Spaceship Earth. Some of my favorite memories with my family ever were in these spatial environments together as a group. And I think this technology affords that to be able to do the tour with my daughter and we play walkabout mini golf together and headset and it feels like we're going to a theme park. I mean, I think giving people the chance to have that level of storytelling and be able to tell their own stories out in the world and not have to have theme park budgets, I think that's what gets me excited.
[00:28:03.174] Todd Little: Yeah, so the ultimate potential, I sort of go back to some of my early days of like just exploring the Internet and I go back to the some old paintings or drawings that I had. This is a program called Free Zone where kids could get together on the Internet and there's just this joy of just exploring. So one of the ideas I had was like putting your face right into the computer and and then being able to explore a virtual space. So for a long time, I've always wanted to blend that reality and shorten that distance between people. And so, yeah, I think the ultimate potential is being able to communicate along distances and share experiences kind of no matter where you are. I think that's one of the powers of the technology.
[00:28:47.906] Kent Bye: Is there anything else that's left unsaid that you'd like to say to the broader immersive community?
[00:28:54.229] Erik Horn: I don't think so. I mean, I'm just constantly inspired by all the stories I hear on this podcast and seeing things like we're seeing here at Tribeca. I do think this technology has the power to really change things for better. A lot of the work we do for Environmental Defense Fund, it's been interesting to see some real changes come out of it. I think it's beyond traditional media. And I would say just continue to push in ways that we can't even think of.
[00:29:21.351] Todd Little: Yeah, to echo Eric, I think there's just, there are amazing things that are coming out of the community. I'm just always amazed just seeing the cool things that people are doing. So I encourage people to just keep trying, keep building, keep sharing those experiences.
[00:29:35.615] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, it was a real pleasure to collide with you this afternoon and to go on this little immersive expedition and this guided tour through space and time through Central Park. And so, yeah, I just really enjoyed the experience of being able to experience it. And I do feel like it's a bit of a trend of having these different types of ways that the immersive technology getting out into the world. It feels like with the spectacle glasses and... Who knows whether other type of platforms might be launching here with either Meta or with Apple. It seems to, though, like we're on this track of going from the Ray-Ban Meta classes into something that whatever the next iteration of the Ray-Ban Meta collaboration may be with adding levels of augmentation or ways that we're on this path of the glasses form factor, I think. We're in a new cycle that feels like we're entering into a next phase. And so I feel like this is a bit of a sneak peek of starting with a phone base, but where is this going to go in the future that has more people wearing these AR glasses and able to add different layers of context and meaning and story and humor and allow people to connect to the world around them in a deeper way. So I think a lot of your work is kind of aiming towards that. So yeah, just a real pleasure to be able to get a little taste of that and to have a chance to sit down with you and break it all down. So thank you.
[00:30:49.548] Erik Horn: Thank you for doing the tour in the rain in the aftermath of the Puerto Rican Day Parade was exiting. So it's not the ideal scenario to do the tour. So thank you very much for going on a real adventure with us today and being here today and be present. So, yes.
[00:31:03.442] Todd Little: Yeah, thanks so much, Kent, for just being around and trying out the tour. Very much appreciated. Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:08.346] Erik Horn: A real thrill. Thank you.
[00:31:10.595] Kent Bye: Thanks again for listening to this episode of the Voices of VR podcast. And if you enjoy the podcast, then please do spread the word, tell your friends, and consider becoming a member of the Patreon. This is a supported podcast, and so I do rely upon donations from people like yourself in order to continue to bring this coverage. So you can become a member and donate today at patreon.com slash voicesofvr. Thanks for listening.
