NOTE: This sponsored episode was produced by Kent Bye in partnership with PHI and participation from Agog: Immersive Media Institute and immersive artist Peter Burr.
PHI and Agog: Immersive Media Institute are collaborating on the PHI Immersive: XR for Impact residency program that will be running from March 2 to 27, 2026 in Montreal, Canada. It was first announced on March 6th, and it’s open to “artists, groups, or collectives residing in North America (including Canada, the United States, Mexico, Greenland, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, and Bermuda).” The submission deadline is June 24th, 2025, and there are a couple of information sessions coming up next week on Tuesday, May 13th (French) and Thursday, May 15th (English), and you can find the Zoom links on the application page (or video recordings if it’s after May 15th).
I think this is a very unique opportunity that will be of interest to the Voices of VR podcast audience since the selected artist(s) will receive $15,000 CAD, be invited to spend a month in Montreal with travel and accommodations provided in order to collaborate with PHI Studio over four weeks towards developing an initial prototype. Artists will receive “tailored support and mentorship from PHI Studio during the residency, including assistance with conceptualization, creation, scenography, production, technical development, and programming support, or other PHI Studio expertise.” They are not considering finished pieces as artists will be “focusing specifically on the development phase of a project over the course of four weeks, the selected artist(s), group, or collective will collaborate with PHI Studio experts to conceptualize, plan, and prototype an immersive artwork. The program provides the selected project with personalized support, workspace, the possibility to connect with a community partner and targeted resources to refine the concept, create prototypes, and prepare for potential production.”
It honestly sounds like an amazing opportunity, and I had a chance to catch up with Myriam Achard, Chief New Media Partnership and PR at PHI, Amy Seidenwurm, Chief of Programs and Strategy at Agog, as well as Peter Burr, who was the immersive artist selected for the 2025 edition of the PHI Immersive residency. We talk about the collaboration between PHI and Agog, which is bringing a specific impact focus on “transforming narratives through activism, contemporary challenges, and social good.” We elaborate a bit more about what it means to use XR technologies and immersive storytelling to empower changemakers. We also talk about best practices and things to avoid in a pitch (be sure to read closely what the submission guidelines are), and a lot of general advice for aspiring immersive artists navigating how to inspire change and provide opportunities to make a positive difference on the many different challenges facing us today. We also cover a lot of other logistics of the PHI Immersive: XR for Impact residency, including Burr’s personal reflections on what the experience was like. Agog also is interested in supporting other immersive residencies, and perhaps starting some of their own residency programs, and so this collaboration with PHI may be an indication for the types of future work that they are looking to support.
Again, the PHI Immersive: XR for Impact residency application deadline is June 24th, 2025 (11:59p EDT), and be sure to check out the information session on May 13th at 11am EDT for French speakers, and May 15th at 11am EDT for English speakers. You can tune in to the podcast or check out the transcript down below for more details.
This is a listener-supported podcast through the Voices of VR Patreon.
Music: Fatality
Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.458] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. Hello, my name is Kent Bye, and welcome to the Voices of VR Podcast. So today's episode is actually sponsored by FI, because they're doing a PHI Immersive Artist Residency Program focusing on XR for Impact in collaboration with Agog, which is an immersive media institute. Just really exciting opportunity for the larger community. I think there's a lot of my listeners who would be interested in this residency program. So it feels like a good fit there, as well as trying to cover some other generally interesting news around this collaboration between PHI and Agog. Them coming together, working on this, I think is also really super exciting. As well as just to hear from Peter Burr, who's the artist who was selected for this previous immersive residency program. And he has lots of really great insights into what the overall experience was like. We also talk around pitching and putting together pitches. And yeah, I think also a lot of just generally useful information for artists as you're thinking about bringing together all these emerging technologies and use it in a way to bring about some sort of positive change in the world. PHI is a multidisciplinary cultural hub at the intersection of art, technology, and music, and they're based in Montreal, Canada. They used to be known as two entities of the PHI Foundation for Contemporary Art, which was more focused on traditional forms of art, and then the PHI Center, which was more focused on emerging technologies, new media, and XR technologies. And those have been coming together in this fusion and combination, which is now known under the name of PHI. They also have PHI Studio, which is their in-house team that is focusing on both XR exhibitions and installations, but also curation and distribution of XR content, but also a focus on immersive experiences and technological expertise. So they have an in-house team that in this residency program, you'll actually be going to PHI for a month next March of 2026 and be working with their teams very closely to develop a prototype of a piece that is focusing on transforming narratives through activism, contemporary challenges, and social good. So this is a collaboration between PHI and Agog, and so I'll have Miriam from FI, Amy from Agog, and then Peter Burr, who was actually the artist who was selected for the previous PHI Immersive Residency Program for this March of 2025. So he'll be sharing some of his experiences of going through this program. But the deadlines to know about is on June 24th is the deadline for submission. And it's actually a couple of informational programs where they're going to be diving into a lot more other specific details. So that'll be on May 13th for the French version and May 15th for the English version. And I'll have some links in the show notes where you can go and check it out. So we'll be covering all that and more on today's episode of the Voices of VR podcast. So this interview with Miriam, Amy, and Peter happened on Thursday, May 1st, 2025. So with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:02:57.734] Myriam Achard: So my name is Myriam Achard. I'm Chief New Media Partnerships and PR at PHI. We are based in Montreal. We've been involved in the XR sector for, I would say, around 10 years. And we have physical spaces in Montreal where we are exhibiting, presenting XR works. We are also producing XR experiences. And we are behind this residency programs where we have different residencies.
[00:03:27.222] Amy Seidenwurm: And hi, I'm Amy Seidenmurm. I'm the Chief of Programs and Strategy at Agog, where a one-year-old organization focused on using XR technology to empower changemakers and inspire people to make the world a better place.
[00:03:44.136] Peter Burr: My name is Peter Burr. I'm an artist who has been working in this space for over 20 years. Perhaps we can try to define XR. I think about expanded cinema, expanded whatever. I've been playing with technology stemming from an interest in painting, which turned into animation, which turned into this. And I was recently at PHI doing the PHI Immersive Residency, which was an incredible experience where I got to really think big.
[00:04:12.850] Kent Bye: Great, and maybe each of you could give a bit more context as to your background and your journey into the space.
[00:04:18.871] Myriam Achard: For us, and I will say us because I would like to acknowledge, you know, that it's Phoebe Greenberg that really asked us to go and explore the XR sector is when Phoebe and myself, Phoebe being our founder, we met for the first time, Felix and Paul. They gave us a VR headset. It's over 10 years ago now. And we had our first VR experience. And then Phoebe said, okay, I want to play in that field. I want to be part of that field. And that's how everything started for us. because of Felix and Paul Studio, actually.
[00:04:52.535] Amy Seidenwurm: And I guess for me, I mean, when I was younger, I really thought I was going to work in the music business for my whole life. I worked at record labels for most of the early part of my career. I was a music fanatic and I ended up running a record label in Seattle in the 90s where I got to know people from Microsoft and Sega and a bunch of other nerds who I realized I had a lot in common with and Kind of realized I had the ability to talk both languages, the language of like culture and creative folks, and also could talk technology and kind of bridge those gaps. And fast forward quite a few years and I ended up running the VR for Good program at Meta, which was a pretty awesome experience to have using Meta money to give some people support to make some important work.
[00:05:43.829] Peter Burr: And I can say for myself, maybe I have my parents to blame for putting an Apple IIe computer in my bedroom when I was growing up in the 80s. When I went to art school in the 90s, I went to Carnegie Mellon University, which at the time was really vanguard in developing computer technology and playing as a young artist. Going to art school because I liked drawing, I liked painting, I liked making images, I just found myself excited about the challenge of playing with VR technology, doing installation art, eventually making animation, which when I finished being a student and went out into the world, I cooked up this idea of going on tour with performative animations. I would curate these shows, the project was called Cartoon Express, and stage these spectacles with inflatable sets and costumes that were framing these screenings. So that was tied into a distribution model that was very much about taking it on the road and being site-specific always.
[00:06:46.747] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, we're talking about the XR for Impact residency program that's going to be running from next March, but the deadline's coming up here on June 24th. And so maybe just to set some general background context for all the different stakeholders and players that are coming together, I'd like to start with... Miriam in PHI side and Amy with the GOG side, and then hear a little bit from Peter around coming in and actually experiencing this residency. But Miriam, maybe you could take us back to when these types of residency programs started to begin at PHI and how this kind of evolved with this latest iteration for the XR for Impact Residency program.
[00:07:24.648] Myriam Achard: so everything started in 2020 remember we had a pandemic and very quick we realized that artists needed help needed support i mean we've been thinking about doing residencies before that but you know like there's 24 hours in a day seven days a week and it was not maybe a priority but the pandemic made it a priority and we wanted to find ways to support artists. So we started with virtual residency and we launched a program where we, I think if I remember correctly, we selected 10 artists that were working in different fields. It was not necessarily XR. We had writers, we had musicians, we had designers where we gave them a little bit of money to work at their home and to come up with a project that we would then exhibit in a virtual exhibition, which we did. And then it took a little while. I think the program went over a year or something like that, a bit less. And then we were coming out of the residency and then we said, well, why don't we take this virtual exhibition and why don't we make a physical exhibition? which we did. And it gave us really, really a lot of joy to see artists, you know, how they worked from their home alone for all this time, presented a virtual project and then made it to the physical world. And that's when we decided that, okay, now pandemic is behind us. But we still want to have residencies with different artists. So we do have three different residency programs. So we have a residency in music, which is open to Canadian artists. We have a residency in more like in contemporary art, which is open to Quebec artists. We had, until this new collaboration we're doing with Agog, the immersive residency that was open internationally. And I have to say, you see that there is a need for residencies. There is a need for artists to get support in different contexts. And I'm thrilled to be now, and I think we'll speak about it a bit later more, but I'm thrilled to be able to collaborate with Agog and with Amy on that project because we've been wanting to collaborate for a long time together. And now to have this collaboration with Agog and open this residency to North American artists is really like somehow a dream come true.
[00:09:53.953] Amy Seidenwurm: We've been trying to do something together for, what, six, seven years at least?
[00:09:58.874] Myriam Achard: Yeah. And can you imagine that in those six, seven years we've been trying to work together, Amy didn't make it to Montreal yet?
[00:10:06.922] Amy Seidenwurm: I've still never been actually to the PHI Centre. Really, this whole residency is an excuse for me to actually go. But also, you know, I was a... I was a little afraid of Miriam when I first met her. So it was really exciting to get to know her and how we're finally doing something. She was like so French and, you know, I didn't understand what she was doing. She's kissing people. And I was just, I wanted to be part of that circle. So I'm excited to finally be in Miriam's world.
[00:10:32.352] Kent Bye: Yeah, so Amy, maybe you could go back to Agog and give a bit more context because I know that Agog has started already to support a number of different events. There's a whole South by Southwest Immersive Impact Award that is new this year that is sponsored by Agog. You know, you're co-curating Tribeca Immersive now in collaboration with Onassis Foundation. So maybe you just give a bit more context for Agog and then how Agog wanted to focus XR for social impact into this specific residency program.
[00:11:00.922] Amy Seidenwurm: Okay. Yeah. And I want to be clear, we are not curators of Tribeca Immersive. Really, Onyx and Tribeca did that together. And we all together came up with the parameters for it. We wanted to make sure that there was a lot of representation among different kinds of media and different kinds of artists. And we wanted to make sure that there was an impact theme throughout. But really, it was Jazia and the folks at Onassis Onyx and Casey who put together the program. We saw it before it was announced, and certainly there were some tweaks along the way, but I really don't want to take credit for that. That said, I think we all came together and really wanted to support Tribeca Immersive, kind of weirdly for the same reason that the residency with PHI is for North America. We are worried about what's going to happen with funding of artists and nurturing of artists and this art form if folks don't jump in. So... I mean, we want to do residencies no matter what. I've worked with creatives enough to know that they need support, where they've got a lot of resources, they've got creative partners, and they also don't have to worry about making rent during a period of time where they can be creative and thoughtful about their process. And anyway, so yeah, we're supporting Tribeca. We have given... Black Public Media some support and supported their pitch black competition that actually I believe is happening tonight, or at least the awards are happening tonight. We have a lab coming up with ASU in the fall where we'll be bringing in probably mostly people who work at nonprofits who are interested in getting skills around XR and applying to those to what they do as an organization. So those are some examples off the top of my head. And then the South by Impact Award, again, like we want people to be recognized for doing this work. And I think the best way for artists to be interested in making it is for them to get some recognition and some money as well.
[00:13:01.707] Kent Bye: Nice. And so, Peter, just I'd love to hear from your perspective of being involved in the previous iteration of this immersive residency program there at PHI. Just some of your top level experiences. What was the remit in terms of what you were expected to produce? And yeah, just give a little bit more context as your experience of this.
[00:13:20.114] Peter Burr: Yeah, it was pretty, in terms of what I was expected to produce, it was pretty open. I felt like PHI gave me all the rope that I needed to hang from if that's what I wanted to do. And I definitely swung on that rope quite a bit. I'm a member at Onassis Onyx, and I had met Miriam previous year at CPH Lab, which is in Copenhagen affiliated with CPH Docs Festival, where I was making some work with a collaborator, Kat Mustatea. I really liked the ideas and the energy that Miriam brought. And so when I saw the call for this residency, This is a project that I've been developing for about a decade, and I've created a bunch of smaller manifestations of it, but I saw this as an opportunity to push at it and explore and maybe primarily to see what happens if I had access to a bigger tech stack, or art stack is this term I know that came out of some research that Serpentine was doing around the future of XR and technology-oriented work. thinking about artists who create studios where there is readily available access to all elements of the production pipeline, which, now that I'm back in New York, I primarily work alone, which just slows down the process and it means that ambitious work that is computational, that is, in the case of the project I'm developing, that I developed for a month at Fi, it's a room-sized video game with a bunch of simulations that are concurrent. There's actually four separate parts. We built a couple of arcade cabinets. And so when I was offered this residency, it just allowed me to scale up my thinking. And I suppose a highlight that really set the tone, we had a number of conversations for the few months leading up to the residency. I talked about some of my ideas. Some of them were a bit pie in the sky. Some of them were a bit older and more grounded. One of the more pie-in-the-sky ideas I had was to build a slot machine that when you walk into this installation that you'd start off by creating a character in a slot machine that felt like an interesting visual metaphor and tool to enter this world. And I showed up to Montreal and the prototype of the slot machine was already built. So I really was able to hit the ground running. I ended up being able to build another arcade cabinet as well in addition to a number of different things. And in terms of expectation, I mean, there really wasn't anything put upon me, but I chose to build towards a little vernissage opening that we had at the end just to show off what we had made over the course of those four weeks together.
[00:15:45.353] Kent Bye: And Miriam, just love to have you elaborate on, you know, a lot of residency programs, you're expected to produce a finished work, but this seems like you're trying to at least have a prototype. Maybe just elaborate on how you're setting up this residency program.
[00:16:00.725] Myriam Achard: So yeah, it was really clear right at the beginning that our goal with the immersive residency is to help the artist, as you said, Ken, to produce a prototype. And I think, like before Peter, as I said, there were three other artists that came through our residency, and everybody really... agreed not to have this pressure of producing something at the end of those. I mean, the first two residencies, I think, were six to eight weeks. Now we are more into four weeks. But not to have the pressure to come up with something almost final was really... liberating almost for the artist and i really think peter i think you would agree that you know you didn't feel any like pressure to come up with something uh that is almost finished but sometimes you can be surprised because the artist that was just before peter emeline kossier who did burn from absence that came through our residency after four weeks she had a project And this project went to ITFA DocLab, won a jury mention award. So, you know, like she worked those four weeks and she just came up with a project at the end. And this project is going to be presented in Singapore in a couple of weeks. It was also in a showcase at Onyx during Tribeca. So it really depends on the artist. But for us, it's really important that there is no pressure. We are there to help to produce a prototype to then be able for the artists to knock on different doors and get funding. But it's for us really important not to put any pressure on the studios and on the artists.
[00:17:36.294] Kent Bye: Yeah, and I did want to unpack some of the primary formats because it does have mention of both XR and AI. So I just want to read this passage. It says, this program is designed to support creators residing in North America whose practices imagine a more just future through new media, extended reality, XR technologies, artificial intelligence, and immersive sound or audio. And then within the XR toolkit, there was also other mention that FI's primary focus is on location-based experiences and installations. Also, interactive projected mapping is mentioned a couple of times. So Miriam, I'd love to have you maybe elaborate on the formats and also to clarify, because I know that PHI is going to be doing more location-based experiences. And if a particular focus of what you're looking for is specifically like LBE experiences, or if it's really a wide range of anything that fits into the broader XR and AI format. So I'd love to hear you elaborate on both the formats and where LBE may be fitting in, in terms of the priority of bringing in the different artists?
[00:18:37.634] Myriam Achard: I think for FIRE, it's really important, you know, to be able to extend an invitation to the artists that are working in the XR field. And to me, it's really like the broad XR field. And it involves everything you just mentioned that is written in the call. We did one year of I think it was actually the year where Emeline was with us. We had asked that projects that would submit would use AI at the center of their creation. And I mean, it's great. Emeline was the, you know, like she's the one that came and she did an incredible project. But we felt after that, that it was limiting projects. too much the project that would apply to the residency. So we wanted it to be as broad as possible. Yes, of course, we are, you know, like LBE is en vogue, and then there's more and more. So we want to open it to that also. It's also very interesting for FI, but I'm sure it's the same thing for Agog, when we will receive the hundreds of submissions to see what artists are thinking about. What is the priority? There will be a trend. I'm 100% sure there will be a trend in the applications. Is it gonna be more projection, more VR? I don't know yet, but there will be a trend. So it's also, and now I'm wearing the Phi hat producer, interesting for PHI to see, as I said, what artists are thinking about, what is their priority subject, but also which technology are they using to tell their stories. So it's really as broad as possible. We received the year where Peter was with us, that year, I think we received over 150 applications from all over the world. And hopefully for this new collaboration partnership with Agog, it will be more than that. And I'm actually quite sure it's going to be quite phenomenal the number of applications we will receive.
[00:20:34.934] Kent Bye: And Peter, as you were thinking about pitching your project, how did you start to incorporate how you were using these emerging technologies, either XR, AI, or other emerging formats?
[00:20:45.461] Peter Burr: You know, as I mentioned in my intro, for a long time, I've been thinking about site specificity. And I think in this speculative mode where you're pitching an idea, that's really challenging, right? Because you don't actually know. The list that you read off, Kent, in the description that PHI provides, it's like, I mean, the way that I read that is it's like a provocation to dazzle us, right? Like, what do you got? And so what I was drawing from in terms of my own imagination, I spent a number of years working in lower Manhattan with an organization called Three-Legged Dog Art Technology Space. They come from the theater world. And I had the opportunity on a couple of occasions to work in a black box studio, Studio C, in the back of their space. which was large enough to create these multi-channel experiences for, let's say, up to 100 people at a time. And so I was really thinking about that, like if I had space with access to technology where I could just build an environment that I invite people into at the end, that becomes my studio. And I started thinking around that. So having met Miriam, I had learned about Fi's history with working with VR and some of these other versions of XR And so I was really thinking about a wide range. And so the project that I proposed had two main components. One of them was a big immersive space where we could collectively inhabit this structure I think of it as the internet incarnate in a speculative dystopic future. And then another side, another room that we would build that was really about inhabiting one person's intestines, thinking about the gut as a second mind, as this quieter space. Perhaps we're using VR, perhaps we're using a different technology, but really thinking about the intimacy of more of a single person experience. And interesting, I'll just share for that during the residency, We ended up not using VR up until the very end. I thought we might, but I ended up building an arcade cabinet for two people that had a hologram in the middle and seven screens where people were actually controlling the protagonists' intestines and able to see each other through this holographic display.
[00:22:56.994] Kent Bye: Nice, so that's helpful distinctions there. And I think the new thing also around this XR for impact residency is for impact. So coming from this XR for good, I just wanted to read a few sections from the invitation for people to apply just to give some of what was written down, but I'd love to have you, Amy, kind of elaborate on additional things for how Agog is thinking around this specific XR for impact residency. Okay, so in the description it says, transforming narratives through activism, contemporary challenges, and social good. And also later it says, cultivate novel visions for living together and foster empathy, understanding, and activism. And then also, artists whose projects address and engage audiences and contemporary challenges and urgent global issues. So a number of these XR for Impact projects have had specific impact campaigns that are associated with it. But then sometimes people can just see storytelling itself on its own as XR for good. So I'm just curious how Agog is starting to navigate this differentiation between XR for Impact versus like normal immersive storytelling. And what are the ways that you start to think around this specific genre?
[00:24:05.174] Amy Seidenwurm: I think we're very interested, honestly, in supporting projects that can help people get to a solution, I guess, or to sort of inspire them to act. You know, I feel like there's a lot of XR for impact work or whatever you want to call it that's really depressing, but doesn't necessarily, it may move you, it may be a beautiful, powerful work, but it doesn't give you any tools to do anything with that energy afterward so that's not necessarily a parameter for this residency but i do think in general that there's sort of a responsibility that if you're going to touch on an important subject in the world that you can give people the tools to do something about it and that's what we're hoping to achieve i think Nick Cave refers to defiant optimism, which I feel like is a good phrase for today. We need to kind of push forward and give people solutions on the other end of whatever issue they're worrying about right now or seeing in the world. So that's how we're thinking about it. But in general, I think I hate to say, you know, when you see it, but I think we're looking for projects that are commentary on problems in the world and hopefully are looking at them in a way that is unexpected and hopefully beautiful and artistic and mind blowing.
[00:25:27.349] Kent Bye: Yeah, just a follow-up for you, Miriam, since I will be a part of helping to select these. In the part of the application process, the applicants are asked to, quote, write down the social impact of your project, detailing the communities that will be mobilized by your project. So in some ways, this is a bit of a paradox for the creators, because in a way, they haven't even created the prototype yet, but it seems like that the more coalition building, or at least forethought into thinking around how this will actually land and perhaps engage communities. So just love to hear any insights on five side as the selection process, what type of things that you're really looking for in terms of how much of that coalition, how much of that impact plan and the best people can predict, be engaged with these different communities.
[00:26:11.533] Myriam Achard: Well, maybe just something to clarify here. It's not going to be only PHI that will be on the selecting committee. There will be an artist. Wink, wink, Peter. And then there will be an XR specialist that's not inside it yet. And then there will be also somebody that we would love a GOG to help us choose that is really somebody that has this impact and connaissance of to really have, you know, like three people around the table that have different expertise, but that will help select the best project. So this is really important. Actually won't be anybody from PHI on the committee. So I think it's quite clear in the description of the project we are looking for, it's that if you need to produce a prototype in four weeks then it means that your project is not too early stages you know it has to have already something concrete and if you have something concrete already then it means that you already thought 360. meaning that you need to know who's your audience. You need to know what you want people to feel at the end of the experience. You need to know as an artist, you know, like what type of impact you want to have. So it's really what we promise is to help them bring that concretely all together and then produce a prototype. So we want to make sure that all of these thoughts the artists, they need to have already thought about it. It's the same thing, you know, like I do a lot of mentorship. I know you do the same thing in different festivals. And then when you ask an artist, well, okay, that's great. You have a great project, but did you think of the scenography or what it would look like in install? And they say, no, then there is a problem. So it's really to make sure that they thought 360 about all the different parts of the project coming together.
[00:28:04.747] Kent Bye: Okay. That's really helpful. Thanks for those clarifications. So the next thing I wanna get into is that there is this four-week program that people go through and it's pretty laid out in terms of the different types of weeks where week one is Amplify and Shape where you're developing the concept, establishing the production schedule, defining the key stages of the project. Week two, Conceive and Iterate, begin developing the work's concept and explore potential designs and formats. for the experience within the chosen presentation context. The third week, prototype and adjust. Artists focus on developing and designing user experience, refining technical operations, and defining key elements of the project. And then the fourth and final week is optimize and plan for the next steps. Create and refine the prototype iterations of the project following a meeting with the funding team and artists draw a financial plan and target opportunities for the next phases. And so I'd love to hear just a little bit of The intent as this flow, it sounds like there's very specific creative and then financial things. And so just love to hear a little bit of an elaboration of if this is like an existing template that you've been using for many years. And then love to hear also Peter's experience of these different weeks. But Miriam, love to pass it over to you to talk around how things are broken up here.
[00:29:14.110] Myriam Achard: So I think, you know, that this is the ideal scenario on paper. And I'm really looking forward to hear Peter because he spent four weeks with our team. And was it really what happened? And I have to say, like, it's really like the month where Peter was in Montreal in the entire month of March. I met him once because I was not in town. So I'm really, you know, looking forward to hear if what we promised, was it delivered, but also was it in the right order? I think this was really developed with Agog, those four weeks and what we would love to achieve. It also, it's linked to the expertise we have in-house. So the artist that is selected is going to spend mainly time with the studio team, not only, but mainly. And in the studio, we have different expertise. We have creative directors, we have coders, we have developers, we have a scenograph. And that's how this was really created. the four weeks plan and this is really the ideal scenario because four weeks is quick so you really need to have a plan of course before starting it and I think Peter mentioned that before he came to Montreal he had calls with the team and I'm sure that was very helpful to set the table and make sure that we are covering all angles in those four weeks But we feel that this is realistic. This is a realistic plan that can be achieved in four weeks. And as I said, four weeks, it's really quick. So we don't want to lose time. And so maybe I'll pass it to Peter to say that. Was it well scheduled and was it realistic and executed?
[00:31:01.226] Peter Burr: Yeah, well, I think the specificity of a schedule like that is really useful in as much as it signaled to me that PHI was really paying attention to how this might go. And Miriam, to echo something that you shared about just logistically who's available when, to maybe translate that a little bit. At the beginning for the first week plus was really discursive. There's a lot of conversations with Phoebe, with creative directors, helping me dust off my delegation skills because later on in the residency is, at least in my case, I was working with the dev team, I was working with sonographers, I was working with a bunch of people who are not available upfront. For me, maybe it was like a two or three part experience where upfront was really working with my thinking cap on and really trying to work through what is possible, what is possible to do together, but most importantly, how to communicate what this is to boil that down. And one of the things that I'm still working on, here we are a month afterwards, is I'm actually working with a designer at PHI to help build a pitch deck to kind of synthesize that. Because I think that's thinking about the long tail. I just built a prototype. I'm still developing it. And I'm still looking to figure out how to finance it, how to finance the production of that project. yeah halfway through once we're really cooking then it's about working with the dev team working with the sonography team to actually build out this project and as miriam mentioned the residency is intentionally really open-ended so i got to really work with buy to figure out what made the most sense so i actually found the experience to be really bespoke really hands-on and there are multiple producers that i was working with directly to help coordinate with the staff because i think i would estimate there's maybe 20 different staff members that i'm working with over the course of the month which is a lot so it's really helpful to have multiple people just checking in and tweaking that schedule and tweak we did in fact in june i'm going to be Filling in the gaps, some things I didn't finish, we're putting in a little bit more time, adding on the top of this residency with one week of remote development time, just because at the very end, it was a fire drill, just getting everything done. And we got everything done for the prototype, but now it's a question of how to make this something that I can build on in a scaled-down environment here in my studio in New York, where it's me and I've hired a couple of developers, but it's a much smaller, slower way of working. So translating that intensity into something more long-term.
[00:33:36.406] Kent Bye: Yeah. And the mention of the pitch deck makes me think of part of the application process is to put together a bit of a pitch around the project and love to have around where we talk around like pitch decks. I've been to like the Venice production bridge where I get to see a lot of different projects that are looking for finishing funds to finish a project that's already been pretty well developed and very much in progress. And this is like a different phase where you're able to, basically declare your vision for the project, where you see it going. And in terms of putting together a pitch, what are some things that you definitely want to see included and any tips, and then maybe some things that people should avoid because you know, the red flags in terms of traps that people may fall into when they're trying to put together a pitch. So as people who are looking at a lot of pitches, I'd love to hear both from Miriam and Amy, any of those tips of best practices, worst practices of putting together a pitch deck.
[00:34:31.351] Myriam Achard: So I have to say that we are quite strict with application, meaning that there's really like a number of words that it's not flexible. We want concrete proposition. We want it not to be too long, but enough to give the artist to have the chance to really explain. I think a nice balance between visual and words is always very important. And try not to... Sell something that is not the truth, meaning that survendre and put too much. And at the end of the day, it's not really what you want to achieve. And I really encourage artists that are listening to us to attend information sessions. We will have a French one on May 13 at 11 a.m. Eastern Time. And then we will have an English session on May 15th at 11 a.m. Eastern Time, where we will be answering all questions artists might have before drafting their submission. This will be so helpful and avoid a lot of work maybe that you thought you would need to do, but yet that you don't. So it's a really like very interesting session. We had always like a lot of people attending. And shout out to my colleague, Rafi, who's the one who's really managing all of this. He's incredible. He's the one that is answering because... We're receiving a lot of questions, even though there is a session before and after. And he's the one that really did the template for the submission. So shout out to him because I think he's incredible. But yeah, we're quite strict around what we want to see in the application.
[00:36:13.174] Amy Seidenwurm: I think beyond that, and I see more random pitches that don't necessarily have parameters, but still understand what people are looking for. I find it really frustrating when I'm really clear about what we are looking for and then somebody sends me a pitch for something else. And I have a lot of respect for artists in the artistic process, so I will read it. But then I might be a bit irritated, honestly, if they're giving me something that I didn't ask for that we can't fund anyway. That said, we are starting as much as possible, and I think this is really where something where Agog wants to grow is to find other funders and hopefully put together a network of funders that are interested in stuff that might be different from what we're doing so we can really advise folks who don't fit into our sweet spots on where to go or make those introductions or make some recommendations to other foundations because I think that's one of the ways this field will grow. Beyond that, just I think we've touched on this already, but understand what your vision is and be able to express that. If you have any kind of prototype or vertical slice or anything you can show us about what you're imagining, that's always really helpful. But also don't overestimate it. I think Miriam got to this, but I've had a couple of pitches where someone will say like, this is going to be just like Carny Arena and it's like really is it like what do you mean by that and you know then you realize it's a small story about a border crossing or something but it's not at all actually like what I imagine Carny Arena to be like if you're talking about that so I just think to understand what your project is and and express it and take the time to Practice talking about it. Run your deck or whatever piece of document you have. Buy some friends or a copywriter. It really makes a big difference if you can express yourself in whatever you send over. Also, it doesn't have to be super long.
[00:38:09.312] Kent Bye: Yeah, and whenever I watch pitches, whenever people have demos, that's always a indication to me, at least, that they have at least some grounding in terms of this vision that is through the process of actually having some sort of early prototype. But because this is a place where you're developing that prototype, then it doesn't sound like that would necessarily be a prerequisite. But Peter, I'd love to hear any thoughts you had as you were putting together your pitch and your application process. what your strategy was for trying to communicate your vision, but also the way that that vision may have helped you to focus what it is that you were actually making.
[00:38:41.884] Peter Burr: Yeah. I mean, maybe to echo what Amy was just talking about, like know what it is that you're doing. I mean, I would say build from where you are, like for other artists that are listening, I can share at least for myself, as an artist who I'm getting a PhD. So part of my income is coming through academia right now. But historically, for the past decade or so, like a big part of how I sustain my practice is by doing residencies, applying for grants and fellowships. And I'm doing that quite frequently. So thinking about what a pitch deck is, in fact, what I'm making now after the residency with FI, like it's important that it's flexible. And so to that point, when I was preparing this document, this application, As I mentioned, this is a project I've been working on for a long time, so I had a lot of materials to draw from. And because I am applying to a lot of different opportunities, I actually set a timer so that I limit the amount of time speculating. As Miriam mentioned, Vi is hoping to get over 150 applications. So you're always gambling. And so to really think about what it is that you actually want to do, to Amy's point, like read what it is that PHI is looking for. And so tell that story and make sure it's genuine, perhaps to touch upon the idea of an issues-based practice where change-making is an imperative. having a knowledge of who it is that you're speaking to. I can say as an artist who maintains my practice through the pandemic, while all of the cultural changes that we've experienced over the past five years, I mean, just to bracket it in the past five years has happened. It has been really challenging being able to speak about what it means to be able to have a utopic imagination. I often think about how it's easy for For me, anyway, I'll speak about myself. It's easy for me to come up with dystopic imaginaries because you don't have to propose a future. You look at something that's troubling and you expand from there. I like working bottom up in terms of a design methodology. So it's like you build from there. Building out a utopia or offering possibility of what a positive change could be is really hard. And I think that just to be totally pragmatic about that and the scope of applying for something like that, if you're able to look at where you're at and think about the present, I think recognizing that art is not journalism, art is not psychotherapy, that it does something different and metabolizes the present differently. And that doesn't mean that you have to propose how to literally make the world better. I think oftentimes the type of artistic experiences that I am drawn towards are ones that just feel honest. So it's really maybe asking yourself how to situate a perspective that when you're putting a deck together or an application of what it may be, that you're actually speaking truth.
[00:41:24.056] Kent Bye: Beautiful. That's really, really, really quite helpful. Thank you for that. Peter just brought up the fact that as an artist, he's applying to all these different residency programs. And a part of this residency, it says that there's a grant of $15,000 Canadian that's provided and that it is only available for folks that live in North America and this go around. I didn't see any specific... mention of by attending, you are signing over any IP rights. It sounds like it's more of a grant rather than sort of a business partnership. So Miriam, maybe you could just clarify on those and provide a little bit more of the context around the material support that you want to provide to the artists.
[00:41:59.932] Myriam Achard: So maybe I'll also specify what we mean by North America, because I think it's also quite interesting. So we will welcome submissions by artists that are residing in Canada, in the United States, in Mexico, in Greenland, in Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon and in Bermuda. So this is for us what is included in North America. So I think it's an important aspect. The other aspect around IP, it was the case before we came with GOG to collaborate on this residency, is that the IP belongs to the artist. We don't have anything to say. The artist doesn't have to share anything with us. But... If we were interested to produce the work, you know, after four weeks of residency, then we want to be the first ones. And I include, of course, Agog, not only FI, to be able to tell the artists, well, you know what? We feel that what you achieve in those four weeks is incredible and we want to be part of this journey. It doesn't mean it will happen, but it could be the case. So that's where it's really important to say that really the IP belongs to the artist. But then if we are interested to come around the table, then the door is open.
[00:43:16.175] Kent Bye: Does that mean specifically like a first look? Because I know there's like first look provisions. So it's basically a first look from by an agog at the project.
[00:43:25.077] Myriam Achard: I would say yes. Amy, I don't know what you think.
[00:43:27.898] Amy Seidenwurm: I mean, we'd love a first look, of course. I don't think we're pretending like we control somebody else's project. We're just excited to work with them on it. I mean, it's not an incubator. We don't feel like we're buying a piece of somebody's work. We are having the honor of being along on the journey.
[00:43:45.737] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, it does sound like that at the end, people are wanting to create something like a prototype. And so I'd just love to hear like what the plan is for like a demo day. Does that happen like at the end? You know, I imagine with any deadline, like you're trying to get everything finished over this cauldron of focus and attention. And so like, how do things kind of wrap up? And what's the culminating moment after this whole month long residency program?
[00:44:10.578] Myriam Achard: I mean, I'll let Peter, you know, answer that because we did have we did have a wrap up event at the end. But we've been doing that for all the artists we had in residency where we did a kind of either a vernissage or just an afternoon where we invited the local community, XR community in Montreal, to come and discover art. the result to come and discover the prototype it's also a very good moment for the artist to meet with the XR community even though during the residency like we always try to you know like make connections but it's really important to have something concrete at the end but I think Peter is best place to answer that.
[00:44:51.038] Peter Burr: Yeah I mean I think we've said it before no point in this residency did that feel like it was a requirement to me in fact I can't recall at any point it being put forward as like something that I have to do. I think for myself, I think it's important with an artwork that it can spawn some form of catharsis. And it's also really motivating when you have a deadline, as I mentioned that last, especially the last few days, but the last week was a real fire drill because we're like, we need to make sure that we can put eyes on it. And maybe the last thing that I'll share in terms of this deck that I'm now making, it is, if you're making a prototype, which is what I built, so important to have actual documentation. I showed up to this residency with a previs that I had built in Blender and Unreal Engine. And I had some components built in Unity, but that was it. And just think of what a difference it makes to look at a documentation of a proposed project and there's actual images. I think it just tells a really different story when it shows that you've actually done something. So that was huge for me. It's something that I was really gunning for.
[00:45:51.016] Kent Bye: And just a quick follow on to you, Peter, just in terms of your, your process and journey and participating in a residency program like this is, could you just comment on what it was like for you as an artist coming in and to have other outside input from PHI and other mentors or other, like, just give me a sense of the different types of people that were able to come on and give you feedback as you were working through your process of developing your prototype.
[00:46:16.209] Peter Burr: Yeah, I mean, that part was so cool. I can say, and I've already shared this when I met Miriam, I picked up a good vibe and I can say that that permeates the whole organization. Perhaps we have Phoebe to blame. I think she's really got something special. I think Montreal is also a really special city as well, coming from New York City where the pressure of how expensive it is and just the churn There's just a different flavor in Montreal. And you're also there in March where it's still snowing every day, right? So there's a bit of a different mode of things operating. But in terms of creative direction and these high-level conversations, Phoebe was really involved, and that was wonderful. I think about Sylvain and Andrew, two other creative directors. I can't speak to actually what their titles were, but we were just speaking really high-level in really different ways. Andrew's kind of strategy is more about interviewing you and, like, pulling things out from the stew that you might not actually see. And Sylvain, who came to FI, I believe, from Moment Factory, so has a lot of experience with commercial production, is thinking from a really different set of experiments of how do we mobilize our imagination to actually talk about it and visualize it. And so then throughout the whole process, you're talking with the dev team, the sonography team. So someone who can build an arcade cabinet in a couple of days, that specialty, they're going to have a really different perspective on what works. To a dev team, someone who can put together a prototype of a LIDAR tracking system in a day, like those sort of perspectives as they come together with this real collaborative spirit, like really good energy. I just found it to be so, I mean, that was the best part.
[00:47:49.298] Kent Bye: Yeah, Miriam, just as a clarification for all these different teams, other like resources that are dedicated for people to come, like what should people be able to expect as they're coming on in terms of, I guess, man hours or other people that are giving advice versus actually kind of diving in and helping to build things?
[00:48:07.000] Myriam Achard: I think that Peter is a great example. You know, we gave him a space, like a dedicated space where he was able to work in. He had access to, as I said earlier, like programmer, coder. We have an AI specialist on board. We have creative directors. We have scenographs. So it really depends on, you know, like what's the focus of the project. And then we will see where... There's a need for more support. But because the team is so diverse at the studio, we try to make sure that almost everybody is getting to know our resident. And I think Peter probably met everybody, that it can be helpful for the advancement of the project.
[00:48:47.557] Kent Bye: All right, so I guess as we start to wrap up, I'd love to hear what each of you think is kind of the ultimate potential of all these immersive technologies, immersive art, immersive storytelling, AI, all of them coming together, and especially in the focus of XR for Impact, and what that might be able to enable.
[00:49:03.253] Myriam Achard: It's a broad question indeed. You know what? Amy mentioned an experience that is eight years later is still with me, which is Carnet Arena, which is a VR experience directed by Alejandro Inarritu. For me, in my, I would say, career in the VR XR world, there is... Me before Carnet Arena and then me after Carnet Arena. As you all know, we are collaborating with Alejandro and Emerson Collective to distribute that work. But what I felt when I did this experience is incredibly powerful. I'm always looking for the next work that will make me feel that. I think there is only immersive technologies that can make you feel that type of experience. I say it and it's, as you know, it's eight years and I still have goosebumps. And I have tears in my eyes because this was incredible. So the power of immersive technology is... if it's used in the right way, can be so powerful. And this is why I strongly believe in what we do at PHI and what we are doing now with Agog and with other artists that we are working with. But it's just the power of immersive technology is incredible.
[00:50:30.071] Peter Burr: Okay, I'll jump in with my two cents, I think. As I shared at the beginning of this conversation, it feels important to maybe define what XR is because I think it means a lot of things. And maybe in this context, I'll talk about it in the scope of like an emerging medium, something that is always unstable, being developed, being advanced, working with tools that are shifting and changing because the nature of them experience is ephemeral and intangible. And so creating artworks where that's at the center that is technologically driven, I think what that does for me is make me reflect on working in this unstable ecosystem where we're always having to make up what the future is. I think it's a particularly interesting space to be asking ourselves important questions. It makes it really difficult to create an artwork where the outcome is foreclosed. It's really, I can say for myself, whenever I'm cooking up an idea, I have to leave it open-ended. And so therefore I think it's a really great domain to ask important questions that we maybe don't know what the answer is. And so thinking about the future, maybe I'll just share what I hope. I hope to see more artists entering the space where they're asking challenging questions that actively challenge these current narratives that feel dystopic that bother us that i encounter when i go on the street and talk to my friends about how unstable and precarious their lives are is it possible to work with these technologies to ask these open-ended questions to invite more people into those life experiences not literally but through visual metaphor through some sort of analogy where we're sharing something because it's not mired in the literalism of actually existing living people, but is coming from a space that's effective and that produces a shared catharsis so we can feel that together.
[00:52:29.505] Amy Seidenwurm: I think for me, you know, I just came off a... We had a got off site for the last few days and we've been talking a lot about, you know, mood boards and putting words against, you know, how we feel about what we're doing. And lots of them were what you'd expect. But one of them that somebody said that really resonated with everybody is necessary. And I think... in this time that we're in, this ability for this technology to connect people and to share human stories is so important. And, you know, this is a way to empower one artist who has a strong vision to do just that. So I think that's really exciting.
[00:53:11.210] Kent Bye: Nice. And is there anything else that's left unsaid that you'd like to say to the broader immersive community?
[00:53:17.634] Peter Burr: Maybe I'll... Gosh, again, it's so hard for me to really understand what the immersive community is. I mean, who is it that's listening? Perhaps there's an interest in playing and playing with technology. Perhaps there's an understanding that there's an industry or an ecosystem out there. And I think, I mean, gosh, as I'm so hyper aware of where these tools come from in terms of materially, like the sort of troubled reality of like materially where this technology comes from, then also in terms of the space in which a lot of these tools are produced within corporate infrastructures that it makes it really challenging to dream outside of, I mean, to quote Mark Fisher, who's quoting other people, it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. And I suppose something to put out there that I hope to see is more people being playful with these tools and thinking about what these tools actually are, what is built into them, and how is it that we can actually use this technology to envision alternatives. It's an open question that I sit with, especially as artificial intelligence, let's call it, as LLMs and automated technologies that slowly and maybe now quickly are more and more coming in to supplant my own imagination when I'm writing a grant. I don't know if other people can relate to this, but I will, of course, use LLMs to help facilitate that. And more and more I'm noticing, oh, that's actually a pretty good idea. And so as we're thinking about where this information comes from, to be thinking really critically about how we play with this, to really sit within ourselves, to maybe look off of the cube that's in our hand and actually talk to our neighbors, to live in the world so that we are actively building the world that we want, not just the one that's most readily available when we're on autopilot.
[00:55:04.659] Myriam Achard: Last word for me is apply, apply, apply. The deadline is June 24th. So between the information session and the deadline, there is six weeks. And then we'll have, as I was saying earlier, also like a committee that will review all the applications. And then hopefully we will have beautiful application and it's going to be really hard for the committee to select. And then it will take place next year in Montreal in 2026. And we really want to know what artists are thinking about, what's their preoccupation. And it's really, really important a beautiful opportunity. And I say that in a very humble way, but I think it's a unique proposition that PHI and Agog are coming together. And I can't wait actually to see who will be applying also, because there will be a lot of people we know for sure, but there will be other people that We probably never, artists, I should say, that we never heard of and that we will discover. And this is the beauty of residencies, to discover maybe artists that you never heard of, that you might not be selected, but who knows that we will be able to somehow see again in the future. So it's a beautiful opportunity. And again, we are very, very happy and thrilled to collaborate with Agog on this residency.
[00:56:30.711] Amy Seidenwurm: We're also stoked. The only thing I wanted to talk about a little bit is that Agog, actually, we'd like to host something like this ourselves somewhere down the line. But we're 10 people, we're brand new. And I had a really great conversation with Miriam and Phoebe in Venice last year. And I didn't even know all these other things that Phi did until we sat down and talked about it. And I understood Phoebe's vision a little more. But It's so exciting for us to not only do this with FI, but learn from them and potentially be able to get knowledge that we could apply to either other organizations who might want to host something like this, or if we wanted to try and do it ourselves, we could, or what kind of resources are needed and how to do it really well. So for us, selfishly, this is a learning experience, hopefully learnings that we could kind of open source or share with the community overall.
[00:57:22.972] Kent Bye: Awesome. Well, Miriam, Amy, and Peter, thanks so much for joining me here on the podcast to break down a little bit more as to what folks should expect for the XR for Impact residency program, where the application deadline is going to be on June 24th, 2025, and it's going to be happening next March. And the other two dates to look out for are both May 13th for the informational program that's going to be in French and then on May 15th the informational program that'll be in English and so yeah it sounds like a really really cool program and I know that a lot of my listeners will be very much interested in applying and potentially attending and yeah it's just really cool to see this partnership between Agog and PHI coming together and to work on this and also hear from you Peter to hear a little bit more of your experiences of what it was like to go through this program and yeah just some of your other thoughts around where things are at in XR, immersive, experiential, art, whatever you want to call it. So yeah, it's a really exciting time. And yeah, just looking forward to see where it all goes here in the future. And thanks again for joining me here to help break it all down.
[00:58:21.206] Myriam Achard: Thank you. Thank you, Kent. Thanks, Kent.
[00:58:25.512] Kent Bye: So that was Miriam Ashard. She's the Chief of New Media Partnership and PR at PHI. Amy Sardenmore, she's the Chief of Programs and Strategy at Agog and Immersive Media Institute, as well as Peter Burr, who was the artist who was selected for the 2025 edition of the PHI Immersive Residency Program. So a number of different takeaways about this interview is that, first of all, Well, again, the deadline for submission is June 24th, 2025 at 1159 p.m. Eastern Daylight Savings Time. And there's a couple of information sessions that are happening on May 13th for the French version, May 15th for the English version. And there will be videos made available that will be linked on the application page, which will be linked down below. This program is actually constrained for folks who are living in North America. So that includes Canada, United States, Mexico, Greenland, St. Pierre, Milikwan and Bermuda. So this is a really exciting opportunity for an artist as you are thinking around developing a prototype of an idea that you maybe have. been already working on. It sounds like you need to have at least some progress to show what this idea is to make it real, but also to have that four-week intensive where you're going through and meeting with all the different folks from PHI to develop this into a working prototype. Well, there's no expectations as to what the outcome is, but you are aiming towards bringing it together and creating at least progress for this idea. So Working with their teams, it sounds like they have quite a lot of availability for different folks that Peter Burr was mentioning, as well as Miriam. In their application, it says you'll be receiving tailored support and mentorship from the PHI Studio during the residency, including assistance with conceptualization, creation, scenography, production, technical development, and programming support, and other PHI Studio expertise outlined in the toolkit section. You'll be receiving a $15,000 Canadian stipend to support your work. They put you up for accommodations and also helping you produce a video to document your process, provide network opportunities. So yeah, it just sounds like a really amazing opportunity, honestly. It sounds like the selection community doesn't actually have anyone directly from PHI or PHI Studio or from Agog, but they're going to be putting together a group of folks that are going to be former artists, XR specialists, someone who's also specifically focusing on XR for Impact to also try to see how there is some sort of like social change element. I thought it was also helpful just to get a little bit more context for this XR for impact, what that means. Like Amy said, you know it when you see it, but using XR tech to empower change makers. So to have some sort of positive change that you want to bring about and be connected to some communities for actually enabling that to happen. And I also really enjoyed what Peter was saying in terms of like tapping into this imagination for how there could be a better world and how these XR technologies can start to feed into that. So yeah. yeah, just really appreciated that perspective from an artist, but also just generally as folks are thinking around this, how can these XR technologies create something that isn't been manifest in physical reality yet, but will able to give you a vision of the future, but also not leaving you feeling really depressed around the reality of the situation, but to give you some sort of deeper imagination and to hopefully catalyze you into bringing about some of that change within the wider world. So that's, I think the, overall intent for what they're going for, for this XR for impact. And so, yeah, I think some helpful things to kind of elaborate on that and recommend looking through. And like I said, follow the instructions as you go through, as you're submitting for all of this and also the information sessions that will also be containing potentially other information that they haven't explained in other places as well. So definitely go check out those live events. And they did say that the videos of those would be made available afterwards. So if you do listen to this after May 13th or 15th and still want to apply, then you should be able to go to their website and still see the recordings of those videos if you were not able to see them live. But of course, attending live is obviously going to be preferable. So you can ask any other questions or follow up in real time. And yeah, thanks again for PHI for supporting this episode. Just really exciting opportunity for the larger community. I think there's a lot of my listeners who would be interested in this residency program. So it feels like a good fit there, as well as just trying to cover some other generally interesting news around this collaboration between PHI and Agog. Them coming together, working on this, I think is also really super exciting and exciting. just really great to see what agog is doing in the xr industry in terms of funding all these different initiatives that amy started to talk around from black public media there's their work that they're doing tribeca that's coming up next month and the south by southwest impact award that they were funding this year so yeah lots of great things that agog is starting to do already in the immersive industry and they hope to do a lot more of funding artists and residency programs. So this is also an opportunity for them to learn about how these different types of residency programs work and for them in the future to continue to expand out and to do other collaborations with folks that are out there in the XR industry who are already doing these different types of residencies or to do some of their own as well. So that's also really exciting, especially if you're an artist in this space, thinking around wanting to start to dive in through one of these pathways of emerging technologies, whether it's XR, AI, or new emerging forms of immersive storytelling. So definitely go check it out and go to the information sessions on May 13th, 15th. And the application deadline is on June 24th. And thanks again for listening.
