Cris Miranda is the host of the EnterVR podcast, and he talks about how his first mind-blowing experiences with VR motivated him to start a podcast so that he could contribute to the VR movement. He sees that the technical details of VR will be lost in translation in the future, and prefers going down the VR rabbit hole in order to get to the deeper, universal aspects of our humanity including our hopes, fears, motivations and insecurities.
Cris recalls his first VR experiences at the first SVVR meet up, and how that contributed to him starting his podcast. Some of the VR experiences that have stick out for him include Titans of Space, Minecrift, Half Life VR and Time Rifters. He prefers experiences that are outside of the box, like Titans of Space.
I’ve observed that Cris is someone who likes to address the more philosophical aspects of VR, and he also isn’t afraid to challenge the status quo and question taboos. So it’s no surprise that he was the only one that I talked to at SVVRCon, who was questioning why we weren’t seeing more porn VR tech like teledildonics represented. He sees that adult entertainment is going to be a huge driving factor in adoption and innovation in VR, but yet no one was openly talking about it.
I agree that porn will be a huge application for VR and will revolutionize sex just as the WIRED cover story on Palmer Luckey alluded to by saying, “This kid is about to change, gaming, movies, TV, music, design, medicine, sex, sports, art, travel, social networking, education — and reality.”
The counterpoint that I would made to Cris and would elaborate on here is that there is a tremendous lack of diversity within the New VR space with only one female speaker and 42 male speakers at SVVRCon. There was a lack of diversity in attendees at SVVRCon, and this lack of diversity is reflected in my guests on this podcast.
I don’t foresee pornography applications and technological innovations being integrated within the mainstream VR gatherings due to the long history of sexist incidents within the tech and gaming industry. I’d also argue that it would not create “a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, or religion.”
This passage is from GDC’s code of conduct statement, which is a part of the movement to include more diversity within tech conferences. Ashe Dryden wrote up two excellent blogs posts about So you want to put on a diverse, inclusive conference and a follow-up Increasing Diversity at Your Conference.
Two of the main recommendations that Ashe and the geek feminism community are recommending to tech conferences is to create a diversity statement and an anti-harassment policy. O’Reilly is a one of the leaders, and it’s worth reading through their Diversity Statement. The other statement is an anti-harrasment policy, which is also commonly referred to as a Code of Conduct statement.
This is one of the passages in the GDC’s code of conduct: “Harassment includes: offensive verbal comments related to gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability; inappropriate use of nudity and/or sexual images in public spaces (including presentation slides);”
I’d argue that including porn applications within a public VR conference would have the side effect of not creating a safe and welcoming environment for all genders and religions. That’s not to say that it’s morally bad, wrong, or not worth exploring. Porn is obviously going to bring a lot of innovation and adoption to VR.
But if we want to see VR move into the mainstream, then I think it’s worth calling out that this new, consumer VR community currently has a pretty big lack of diversity issue that is worth addressing first. If you’re interested in learning more, then I’d recommend reading through Ashe’s two posts on inclusivity and diversity for more details.
Have thoughts? Share them on Twitter or this Reddit discussion here.
TOPICS
- 0:00 – Intro and trying the Rift for the first time in 2012
- 0:28 – It was as the Computer Science History Museum at the first SVVR meet-up, and he tried Proton Pulse. It was a mind-blowing experience. Tried Half-Life 2.
- 0:50 – Half-Life 2. Like being somewhere else and feels physical
- 1:17 – Living in the bay area, and how that led to starting the EnterVR podcast.
- 1:55 – Meet people at the meet-up, and the following up with people from online, r/oculus, and elsewhere online.
- 2:18 – Why did you decide to do a podcast?
- 2:45 – What interviews stick out for you? Matthew G from Relaxation in VR (aka /u/VMU_kiss). Enjoys the process of peaking down the rabbit hole with guests.
- 3:34 – What were some of the VR experiences that stick out for you? Titans of Space, Minecrift, Half Life VR and Time Rifters. Experiences that are outside of the box
- 4:21 – What is driving your questions and what you’re trying to figure out about VR? The details of the tech will be lost in translation in the future. Trying to get down to the universal aspect of our humanity in terms of motivations, fears, endurance, insecurities and hopes. Don’t focus too much on the details
- 5:15 – Where do you see this going? Upset that there isn’t more porn at SVVRCon. Cris says that Porn will be the killer app and a driving factor of virtual reality, and wonders why there isn’t more teledildonics tech there. Grateful to be in the presence of VR giants.
- 6:34 – Q: Counterpoints to porn. Cultural issues. Lack of diversity on the speaker panels. Issue of integrating porn into a mainstream conference, and is not welcoming of diversity – A: Cris says that we’re here to ultimately make money with VR. Porn is going to be make money in VR. We’re adults, and so why can’t we have a blank slate with what adult entertainment could be? We don’t have to bring the perils of porn piracy tube sites like Pornhub to the metaverse.
- 8:25 – Q: Don’t foresee porn being integrated into mainstream culture or VR tech conferences. A: Porn is dying because of the Internet. Porn will always exist, but Internet piracy is eating at their bottom line. And so the porn industry will have to innovate with VR to survive.
Theme music: “Fatality” by Tigoolio
Rough Transcript
[00:00:05.452] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast.
[00:00:11.936] Cris Miranda: My name is Chris Miranda, the host of Enter VR, and I became involved with VR back in 2012 when I first tried on the Oculus Rift. It was from that moment on, putting on the Rift for the first time made me realize that this is the future and I wanted to be a part of it.
[00:00:28.250] Kent Bye: Where were you at, and what was the thing that you experienced in the Rift?
[00:00:31.032] Cris Miranda: So this was at the Computer Science History Museum at the first Silicon Valley Virtual Reality Meetup, and the first thing that I tried was Proton Pulse. Yeah, and that was a really, you know, I would say, mind-blowing experience. And then I tried Half-Life 2, and that one just took me over the edge. I was like, this is real, it's happening, I need to get on it, yeah.
[00:00:51.024] Kent Bye: And so you had played Half-Life 2 in, like, 2D, and then what was your experience in playing it in 3D then?
[00:00:56.773] Cris Miranda: It's like being somewhere else. It's like you play in 2D in a regular on the old school paradigm on the computer monitor and then you play it in VR and it feels like once you're in VR it's like I know this place I've been here before but now it feels physical it's around me and that sensation is really really hard to describe and it just makes it that much better.
[00:01:17.345] Kent Bye: And so talk a bit about, you know, living in this area and being exposed to all this sort of cutting-edge stuff and sort of how that led you to what you're doing now with the Enter VR podcast.
[00:01:26.927] Cris Miranda: You know, that's a funny thing you bring up because I was well aware of my geographical luck. Like, you know, I had a pretty good roll of the dice in terms of where I ended up living growing up in. It turned out that I was, you know, majored in the wrong thing in college, but, you know, it helped me realize where the power was and where the movement and all that good stuff is happening. So yeah, if you live in the Bay Area, it's Silicon Valley and tech. It's where it's at.
[00:01:54.940] Kent Bye: And so it sounds like you're meeting a lot of people at these meetups that you're then bringing on your show, is that correct?
[00:02:01.566] Cris Miranda: Yeah, that was one of my approaches, is meeting people at the meetups, you know, getting actually a face-to-face interaction and then following through with a podcast. And then aside from that, it was just browsing the internet, on the internet, our Oculus, random forums, somewhere in the darknet, but yeah.
[00:02:18.807] Kent Bye: And so tell me about that moment that you decided, hey, you know what I need to do is to do a podcast about this topic.
[00:02:25.412] Cris Miranda: That's a good question. That was when I put on The Rift, and then I was like, all right, I need to be a part of this. But what do I do? I'm not technically inclined, at least not yet. I'm not a programmer. I'm none of that. So what am I good at? Oh, I'm good at running my mouth. And I'm going to start a podcast doing the thing that I know that I'm good at, which is running my mouth. And that's how it worked out.
[00:02:46.023] Kent Bye: And so tell me about some of the interviews that you've had with people, ones that maybe stick out.
[00:02:50.984] Cris Miranda: I would say a couple of them that have sticked out are with Matt from Relaxation in VR. We went, I mean, there's people where I'll try to make them peek down the rabbit hole, and they'll peek with me, and then they'll pull back. They'll be like, that's enough, Chris. That's enough crazy talk for now. but then there's people who will like jump with you and Matt is one of those you know they can name a couple others who were like fuck it we're going full fucking crazy on this motherfucker and it's gonna be fun and yeah those kind of conversations where I end up like you know figuring out ways to 3d print my penis or how to live forever or you know put my grandma's consciousness on a quantum computer those are the kind of conversations that stick around for a while in my head yeah
[00:03:33.487] Kent Bye: Great, and so what about some of the virtual reality experiences that you've had that really come to the forefront of your mind?
[00:03:40.692] Cris Miranda: In terms of experience, deep, deep in the crevices of my heart is Titans of Space being one of my most favorites of all time, followed by Minecraft. And then I would say, lastly, it's either between Half-Life VR, or the Time Rifters. I mean, they were, you know, these experiences, I can recall Time Rifters even though it's been out for a little while, but their design was implemented so great in terms of minimizing my simulation sickness that, you know, I'm still remembering a game like Time Rifters. But I think experiences that are really outside of the box are really some of my favorite experiences, I would say. Titan in Space being one of them, for sure.
[00:04:21.227] Kent Bye: And so when you're doing these interviews, what is sort of driving your questions and what you really want to figure out and know about virtual reality?
[00:04:30.090] Cris Miranda: So I think that in the record of history, when people look back at these conversations, at these podcast interviews, I think the really nitty-gritty details of the technology, they're going to be sort of lost in translation. There's going to be like this lost language, right? And so, what I think will be universal in the future is the human aspect of what is happening around us, right? You, the developer, what motivates you? What gives you fear? What keeps you going? All those sorts of things and, you know, your insecurities, your hopes, all that stuff. are things that are worth capturing and I think are worth remembering sometime in the future. So, when I ask questions or when I'm on the podcast, I like the technology, but I don't tend to focus too deep in the technical details of it.
[00:05:15.508] Kent Bye: being here at the first ever Silicon Valley virtual reality conference and kind of what you're experiencing here and where you see this going.
[00:05:23.672] Cris Miranda: I don't think there's enough porn. I've been looking around and there's great games there's a lot of you know peripherals and applications but I haven't seen not a single porn application and we're talking about like the thing that is going to be the killer app here like we're not lying to ourselves here like we know that pornography is going to be one of the driving factors of virtual reality, and yet I haven't seen not a single Teledildonics peripheral, I haven't seen a single, you know, Backdoor Slots 9 sort of iteration for VR, I haven't seen none of that. And so that's interesting to see this year around. I want to know, I wonder what it'll look like next year. But just being here it just feels so like I feel so grateful and honored you know just to be amongst the presence of like you know I think giants who are pushing knowledge to the very edge in terms of the technology like we're at those panels and I'm listening to these conversations and I'm like in terms of like what VR is doing or in the potentials it has for the human brain and human consciousness like I see those And I see these panels and I'm like, we know shit. We know nothing. And it's exciting to see that because the things we'll figure out ten years from now are going to be like science fiction to us right now. So, yeah, man, it's super exciting.
[00:06:34.577] Kent Bye: Yeah, I just want to follow up on, bring up a couple of counterpoints to the porn. Because, you know, one aspect is just the culture. Porn is sort of on the underground and not really accepted in the mainstream. But also, I would say that, you know, when you look at the speaker panels, it's all men and one woman. And so, I think that there's an issue of diversity as well in terms of gender bias. And I think that if there was pornography here, what is that going to say of integrating pornography into tech conferences and saying, hey, this is normal in terms of like, that in my mind is going to be even less welcoming to more diversity in terms of gender. I do agree that, you know, there's probably an element there, but I think there's other considerations there to think about in terms of, hey, if we really want this to be a wide thing, then is including pornography in an event like this, what kind of message is that going to send?
[00:07:24.920] Cris Miranda: Let me play the devil advocates there because why we are here fundamentally, you know, no bullshitting around. It's because at some point, some of us, if not all of us want to make money. And so if we're talking about like what is going to make money in VR, we can't leave this, you know, where else is this going to happen? You know what I'm saying? So I figured, yes, it's the first. I don't see any children around. And because VR is such a new space, a new medium, I don't see why we can't have a blank slate in terms of what the gender bias looks like in this new realm of, you know, adult entertainment, right? Like, it doesn't have to be that we'll have to bring in the cultural and the perils of Pornhub and all those other sorts of sites to VR, we don't have to. We can start all over again and actually build a much more equitable and much more gender unbiased metaverse for adult entertainment. But yeah, it's going to make money. That's why I think it's important because no one's like, who the fuck doesn't want to make money here? Yeah.
[00:08:25.785] Kent Bye: Yeah, I just, I don't foresee those things merging and just because of a cultural element there of, you know, the porn industry has kind of their own parallel universe when it comes to all those videos and multimedia interactive. I don't think they're very well integrated in cultural society and in the major mainstream conferences so I'd imagine in the future they're going to be split off but you know that could be left up for people like yourself to be able to bring and those guests who are kind of on that pioneering edge because pornography is frankly going to be one of those applications that are going to be done in virtual reality.
[00:08:59.383] Cris Miranda: dying it's a medium that i mean because of the internet what the internet did to the music industry the music industry sort of adapted right the porn industry i mean i i was reading articles about it how they're like you know that all these actors and executives are from studios are putting out letters to city council saying this internet is fucking up our bottom line it will beat you gotta have to adapt it's capitalism and so porn will always exist except you know at this point in time the internet is eating all its lunch money so I think they're going to have to innovate in order to stay relevant or to make more money, right? Like, they're going to have to use VR, if anything. So, it would benefit them to not isolate themselves so much from the rest of society, especially Silicon Valley here. People don't have any, like, moralistic qualms about, you know, the taboos of sex, you know. I think a lot of these people here just want to make, you know, one, VR grow really big, and two, make money, obviously, yeah.
[00:09:55.472] Kent Bye: So what's the best place for people to keep in touch and to follow what you're doing?
[00:09:59.755] Cris Miranda: Well, I am on intervr.net. And r slash intervr, that's my little subreddit. You can hang out with me on Twitter or whatever. And yeah, whenever I put out a podcast, that's when you get them. Sorry, guys. It's a weird style, but it works with me.
[00:10:16.486] Kent Bye: Great. Well, thanks, Chris. Yeah, thank you.
